Celts split: Welsh, Scots, Irish

[BitStuffer]

I wanted to promote the idea of a Celts split, without intending this to be a priority over anything else or exclusive to them.

The Celts Civ is just one of those umbrella Civs that have much more entropy than they express. A split could bring that out, possibly with original ideas gameplay wise. There still is uncharted territory in that sense.

I’m not going to be specific about this, I don’t even need to, but there are a few ideas to work on. The split would be, as by title, Irish, Scots and Welsh.

Scots
Probably the Civ that could inherit the most from the Celts and be the free one for that reason. Below average cavalry and archery but inherits the siege bonuses and keeps a focus on infantry.

Surely has to feature Highlanders, maybe as a Two-Handed Swordsman replacement, with a charged attack. It’s actually a system pretty much like that of the Romans but with different stats, I suppose.

The UU could be a pikeman, since the Scots developed sound tactics with pikes, the issue though is the risk of overlapping with the Kamayuk.

An already made Civ concept:

Civilisation Concept - The Scots

Presenting my first civ concept here, a completely unnecessary addition of yet another European people, the Scots! I made this into a mod and used it to play through the Robert the Bruce custom campaign, and they were amazing fun and (I think) fairly well balanced. This is intended to be part of a split of the Celts civilisation into several medieval Celtic states, the others being the Welsh, Irish and Bretons, with more historically-inspired features. Keep an eye open for more of them in the…

Irish
The Irish could be the ones to inherit the wood gathering bonus and the one for the faster infantry. A difference could be having good Monks and a bonus for them. A sea bonus also? Faster moving Fishing Ships that double as small Transport Ships?

The Civ could represent the raiding and fighting amongst clans but should depict the figure of the High King and its authority.

For them I imagine making the Skirmisher a much more general unit, possibly substituting the Archer line altogether. Could be replaced by a unit, the Kern.

The UU could probably be the Woad Raider or something similar, localised. Still fast melee infantry.

New Civilization Concept - the Gaels

Hi all! Here’s my take on what a Gaelic civilization could look like in Age of Empires II. I am aware that others have already proposed adding the Gaels to the game (and most of them are much more detailed than mine!), but nevertheless, I thought I would offer my two cents on what the Gaels could look like… The Gaels Infantry & Monk Civilization Western European Architecture Rationale: The Gaels would represent the kingdoms of Medieval Ireland (particularly because the Celts seem to be focus…

Welsh
This is tricky since the Britons already take the famous Longbowman. But it’s not over yet.

The Welsh surely get the sheep bonus from the Celts. Other than sheeps, the Welsh are clearly an archer civ, that knows how to use the terrain for quick attacks and holding their ground.

To reflect their archery, they might have a special treatment for the Archer. Instead of having the Crossbowman and Arbalester, they get staggered improvements to the Archer as a Civ bonus, maybe reinforced by an Unique Tech.

As a Unique Unit I was thinking of a heavy spear unit to defend the Archers and provide a good first line, with some use against buildings too.

Civilisation Concept - The Welsh

Presenting the second civ in my hypothetical, needlessly Euro-centric split of the Celts into 4 parts. This time, the Welsh. Historically, the Welsh were known as ambush fighters, using knowledge of the terrain and powerful longbows to launch deadly attacks, but would often retreat in the face of stubborn resistance. I wanted the in-game Welsh to reflect this, with strong options for early-game aggression and a strong early economic advantage, but a weaker late-game. The Welsh - Archer Civil…

[Akoskaaa10]

People wanting insignificant kingdoms is getting annoying ffs

[BitStuffer]

We just got Georgians and Armenians, talking about insignificant kingdoms. What the heck do you want?

[Velk413]

@BitStuffer

What the heck do you want?

Civs in E. Asia and Africa? lol.

I don’t mind this tbh but even in Europe I think there are many bigger fish to fry than splitting Celts, and i’d probably rather see them left alone especially since they’re classic.

[BitStuffer]

Even classics can get a twist every now and then. See the Persians, they were a classic, but changed a lot. Indians were around for quite a while and got split. It can be done.

[TungstenBoar]

Celts are a much more fun and interesting civ than old Persians and old Indians were a mess

[Velk413]

Yes, but i’d rather see Saracens & Slavs tweaked/modified before Celts tbh, especially since the inclusion of Welsh in this idea would require a modification to Britons too. Also in some campaigns Celts are used to represent Basque peoples, which makes sense but none of the new proposed civs would work in the same way.

@TungstenBoar

Celts are a much more fun and interesting civ than old Persians and old Indians were a mess

Also this. Old Persians were blaaaaaaand as heck.

[BitStuffer]

@TungstenBoar

Celts are a much more fun and interesting civ than old Persians and old Indians were a mess

That’s true. Celts aren’t boring, that’s not the reason for a split. It’s a cultural matter and a chance to have new mechanics and quirks. Celts don’t really make much sense as they were conceived, as with many other original Civs. I’m highlighting a possibility here, there’s potential.

@Velk413

Yes, but i’d rather see Saracens & Slavs tweaked/modified before Celts tbh

As stated, I’m not saying this should come before or after anything else. Personally they could come in whichever order, I would be fine.

@Velk413

Welsh in this idea would require a modification to Britons too

No, not really. The Longbowman issue can be bypassed.

@Velk413

Also in some campaigns Celts are used to represent Basque peoples, which makes sense but none of the new proposed civs would work in the same way.

I don’t see that as an issue, in the campaign Civs have always been used as surrogates for absent ones.

[Sveaborgare]

Hey don’t forget the Bretons and the Galicians! They were also Celts!

[BitStuffer]

Are they even real?

[Apocalypso4826]

@BitStuffer

We just got Georgians and Armenians, talking about insignificant kingdoms.

They were hardly insignificant. Georgia was the strongest kingdom in the region during the period where Constantinople briefly fell, and Armenia had a very strong cavalry force, and apparently the best archery force.

[BitStuffer]

They sure don’t compare with the heavy weights. That’s not the topic though, I don’t consider any of these civs insignificant, I was just answering @Akoskaaa10 reprehensible comment.

[Apocalypso4826]

@BitStuffer

I was just answering @Akoskaaa10 reprehensible comment.

Akos was one of the people who practically laughed at me in the Dharma Expansion Discord for wanting to make a Caucasus-themed mod, so don’t be surprised.

[Mahazona]

@BitStuffer

Surely has to feature Highlanders

They are not medieval.

[RatcicleFan]

I support a Celt split if only because of how poorly designed Celts are.

@Velk413

in some campaigns Celts are used to represent Basque peoples, which makes sense

Wait how does this make sense? It’s not like Basques were Celts.

[Yevardian]

Poorly designed? Celts stand out for being barely been changed since 1.0a, because they’re fine.

I’m guessing Velk413 has confused Basques with nearby Galicians in NW Spain.

[RatcicleFan]

@Yevardian

Poorly designed? Celts stand out for being barely been changed since 1.0a, because they’re fine.

I mean they’re directly inspired by Braveheart, which is anything but historically accurate.

Also the devs seem to have conflated Scots, Gauls and Picts which is really weird.

[FearfulSugar350]

they should only rename Celt into Scot and change them. Welsh and Iris are redundant.

imo, they should remove woad raider because they are out of place and give them a new champion replacement called Gallowglas that mimic the woad raider stats with a +5 bonus vs siege. It goes LongSword → 2HandedSwordmen → Gallowglas

As for a new UU from castle, It should be a bombard canon unit with 7 range in castle age and 10 range with elite upgrade called Mons Meg. They have shorter range but come with more HP, more damage and slight larger aoe due to shorter range.

[Mahazona]

Nobody wants brittany as a celts civi?

[BitStuffer]

@Mahazona

They are not medieval.

What Highlanders are you picturing?

@RatcicleFan

I support a Celt split if only because of how poorly designed Celts are.

@Yevardian

Poorly designed? Celts stand out for being barely been changed since 1.0a, because they’re fine.

They’re poorly designed culturally/historically wise, not gameplay wise. They’re cool in that regard.

@RatcicleFan

Wait how does this make sense? It’s not like Basques were Celts.

No, indeed, but that’s how it is in the Berbers campaign. In one of the missions the Basques are “impersonated” by the Celts.

@FearfulSugar350

they should only rename Celt into Scot and change them. Welsh and Iris are redundant.

That’s an option, but it has to be a free rework of the Celts. Also making a couple new Civs and some campaigns makes a DLC that can be sold!

Regarding the Gallowglas I don’t think it belongs to the Scots, they were Gaelic mercenaries after all.

@Mahazona

Nobody wants brittany as a celts civi?

I’m don’t think they could quite cut it, like @Yevardian said. The Galicians for analogous reasons. They blend too much with their overlords in the Middle Ages.

@Yevardian

Tbh, I would personally like Wales added, but you know what a fit some people with have if an old civ like Celts get split and they don’t get their Wakanda DLC instead.

Any order of release is good to me, I understand plenty of people would like to see east Asian or African or American new civs first, so I would let them have it.