I was thinking that it would be fun to have a pkace to talk about civ desogns without leading into toxic discussions about wheter the civ is or isnt DLC worthy and in which we can just make people learn about the diferent civilizations of the middle ages a bit as well as a chance to have fun trying to make something balsnced and flavourful around that history. So feel free to use this post to share your ideas and talk about ways to improve the ideas of the others.
I will start with the kingdom of Benin from the coasts of Nigeria created by the Edo people, a civ thst would also represent the Yoruba and other peoples from Southern Nigeria (btw you can click on the bonuses to see the details for why I chose that bonus).
Recieve +125/250/375 food at feudal/castle/imperial age
Southern Nigeria was a region with plenty of food, and the region controled by the Edo was no exception.
While its sort of just a random economic bonus that coukd be used almost anywhere, Benin had a vibrant economy
Scale mail armour, chain mail armour and plate mail armour free
Beninese army was considered by the Portuguese to be the most well organized military force of western africa and Beninese were also known as
Fortified walls and hoardings free
Benin was always known by its walls and the city of Benin was itself very well placed for defense, warfare for most of the people of the region also was based around fortifications
Villagers can build rams starting at castle age
Since fortificatione were importsnt through the region sieges were an important part of warfare as well. Since wheels werent commonly used on Africa I thought villagers building rams would be appropiate
Unique unit: Legion (heavy infantry unit with attack bonus vs cavalry and high pierce armour, weak vs siege and heavy infantry)
Hit Points: 60 (70) Unit Cost: 60F 30G
Attack: 6 (8) ROF: 2
Armor: 1/3 (1/5) Range: 0
Upgrade: 1250F 500G Speed: 0.9
- 16 (22) vs cavalry
Castle age: Ife Ife - 250F 250W
Units can garrison at monasteries for healing, garrisoned units heal 10 times faster
A filler tech, Ife ife was a sacred city of both the Edo and Yoruba people
Imperial age: Queen’s Guard - 525F 475G
Militia and spearmen attack 60% faster
They needed a last push for infantry I would say, this bonus while comparable to japanese in its effect to the militis line thanks to missing champions is substancially worse for their spears.
Barracks: Champion, halberdier
Archery range: cavalry archer, hand canoneer
Stable: husbandry, paladin, camel, battle elephant, steppe lancer
Blacksmith: plate barding armour, ring archer armour
Siege workshop: bombard cannon, siege onager
Monastery: Redemption, illumination
University: heated shot
Dock: elite cannon galleon, heavy demolition ship, dry dock
Campaign: Ewuare I
Wonder: Oba’s palace
Im not really sure how balanced this is but tell me how balanced it is. I will maybe add a history section later.
My knowledge of historical civilizations isn’t great, but I did notice a few unused bonuses that could be nice to see on a new civ.
Archer Attack +1 in Castle Age, +2 in Imperial
I’m surprised this doesn’t exist for foot archers. This would mean their generic crossbows in castle age would deal the same damage as Rattan Archers or Longbows (without the extra toughness or range of those civs). In Imperial Age it would mean their Arbalesters can reach 12 attack after Bracer and Chemistry, which is the same as Mangudai, Camel Archers, or Magyar Cav Archers (without the mobility of these units). It would be interesting and unique, and doesn’t seem overpowered if it begins after Feudal.
Foot Archers 10% Speed
This one may be more questionable, because ranged units kiting melee units can be very strong. However, I don’t think this would be overpowered. They would end up at 1.06 speed, which is the same as Lithuanian Skirmishers, and slower than the 1.1 of Rattans, 1.2 of Plumed Archers, or the 1.1 of Bohemian Hand Cannoneers after their UT. It’s possible that Feudal archers would be problematic, so it could be implemented by allowing Squires (a castle age tech) to apply to foot archers. I dont think this bonus should be combined with extra attack, those would be two different civs.
Skirmisher Fire Rate
This one would be great for countering archers, since it allows their bonus damage to be dealt more frequently, similar to how Japanese Halberdiers are strong against cavalry. Thumb Ring has almost no effect on Skirmishers rate of fire, so a civ bonus of around 25% would be useful and unique. This could go to a mew civ, or possibly replace/supplement the Incas skirmishers bonus.
Elephant, Camel, Steppe Lancer Fire Rate
Cavalry only attack faster with Bulgarian Stirrups, and since Bulgarians don’t have these units there is mo way for any of them to attack faster. It would be interesting to see one or more of these on a new civ, possibly one of the various Indian empires I’ve seen mentioned (they could have elephants and camels).
Melee Armor for Hand Cannoneer, Skirmisher or Camel
None of these units can be upgraded in this way. Would be cool to see a camel that could take one more hit from a Paladin (Imperial Camels actually have one less melee armor compared to generic fully upgraded). Skirmishers that weren’t quite as vulnerable to Champions and Hussars. Or Hand Cannoneers that could stand their ground a little longer after melee units closed the gap. Hand Cannoneers also lack Pierce armor, so maybe a +1/+1 or even up to +2/+2 would be an acceptable UT for this unit, similar to Pavise.
I wish I could tell you that this isnt broken but it most probably is, particularly at imp. Not sure if no thumb ring would balance it out.
If you lock it behind squires its probably fine
A few more:
10% Movement Speed for Eagles
Just because I miss Couriers, even though Fabric Shields is an improvement. This could maybe be combined with increased Fire Rate as a UT, because that also does not exist given that Japanese don’t have Eagles.
Steppe Lancer Cost Reduction
No civ has this specifically, and Berber 20% discount can’t be used for this unit because they don’t have Lancers.
Rams and/or Trebuchets +20% Damage
Surprisingly this doesn’t exist, but it could. The trebs would still be inferior to Japanese, and the rams inferior to Celts, but maybe it could be a passive bonus instead of a UT, much like Burgundian’s bonus to Bombard Cannon damage.
Trebuchets +25% HP
There’s currently no way to increase their HP. Furor Celtica only applies to Siege Workshop units. Teutons can have more armor, but that’s not quite the same thing.
Monk Conversion Cooldown
Similar to Illumination tech, but free and instant in Castle Age Stacks with Illumination in Imperial. Alternatively this could be faster conversions, to counter the Teuton or Sicilian resistances. It should not be both, that would be too strong.
Splash Damage for Cannon Galleons
Basically let them hit an area similar to the Bombard Cannon.
Blast Radius for Demo Ships
Think Torsion Engines on water, could be combined with the cannon galleon one above as a UT.
Galleons +1 Range
Strange that this doesn’t exist, given that Byzantines have +1 range for fire ships and Turks have extra range on cannon galleons, but no civ has Galley line range. Maybe good for a civ without gunpowder, to help harass shorelines.
Fire Ship Cost Reduction
Vikings have cost reduction on other war ships, but no access to this one. Portuguese get gold discount and Koreans get wood discount, but no civ has all around cheaper Fire Ships.
There is a huge reason this doesn’t exist.
Because it would be absurdly broken.
The unique unit and unique techs sound cool but the civ bonuses are making the civ go drush FC civ every single game, because bonus food and walls that just never die do just that. Actually if their buildings get +4 melee armour in castle age you outright need siege to even hope to get past a house. Also did you try to test whether the carry bonus does anything? It surely is better than what the prototype version of Sicilians got and it surely would get better than Aztecs as the game goes one, but carry capacity tends to be overkill after wheelbarrow.
Would you consider Magyar Heavy Cavalry Archers to be “absurdly broken”? They have the same attack and range as the Arbs I’m proposing. Cav Archers do cost 15g + 15w more than foot archers, but for that price you get double the HP, 60% more speed, and +2/+2 armor. Sounds about right IMO.
I don’t think this hypothetical civ should be missing thumb ring because the lower fire rate and accuracy would almost completely negate the damage increase. They could bave a weakness such as missing Ring Archer Armor (which would mean Cav Archers have+3/+4 additional armor in comparison).
Mmm, maybe mske it not affect palisades? Maybe I should just remove it and give them something else, but they just needed something defensive.
Havent tested it but I imagine it would be fairly mediocre. Biggest effect may be to late gsme wood collecting.
I did assume it affects everything because you said it’s inspired by their irl walls. I suppose free fortified walls could be a good replacement.
Against heavy cav lacking thumb ring wouldbe extremely inconsequential when compared to dealing either 50% or 66% more damage per shot
Rn it does affect everything. I would personally rather giving them something long term over a free tech (mainly because they seem fairly generic without the UTs otherwise at late game) but free fortified walls and hoardingsmay be good enough
No. Because they have to pay for it. They have no eco bonus and getting to fully upgraded hca is expensive
The only way they have +2/+2 armor is with full upgrade.
Meanwhile people complained about bohemians with castle age chemistry crossbows despite lacking thumbring.
Heck Magyar HCA are very good. When BR was still alive Magyars were literally the best civ you could get. A lot of games would end with a huge ball of Magyar HCA raining death on everything.
I think fortified walls could be a super good bonus because when you’re under pressure and build emergency stone walls you rarely have the time for a university. Also people who hate stuff like janissaries on arena would love free fortified walls.
Oh agree it’s strong. But it’s a matter of getting there.
But castle age crossbows with +1 attack for free?
no bodkin civ let’s go
Yeah, I agree it would have to be a civ without great eco. And no issue paying for the final +1 attack as an Imperial UT. Could even be +2 as Imperial UT and keep their Castle Age crossbows generic (although IMO making them more like chemistry crossbows sounds fun, and if they lack Bohemian eco it could be balanced to have +1 for free). I just want a path, even slow and expensive, to have strong arbs with 8 range and 12 attack in late imp.
In a game where we have a civ with extra range, and infantry units with extra attack there is a reason +1 damage for free doesn’t exist. Cactus and tungsten both backed that up
Beyond that seems good? Or is there anything else problematic?