Civilizations buffs/changes and some bug fixes

[The12Reaper12]

Since it was revealed news about AoE II DE, I thought it would be nice to give and hear opinions about civs that currently are not great in certain areas or overall weak. I tried to not add anything new to the civs, just change values and make some technologies more rewarding.

Aztecs:
-Units created 13% faster
-Start with +75 gold
Garland wars: +5 infantry attack

Berbers:
Maghrebi Camels: increase regeneration to 20 per minute
-Genitour affected by all technologies and civilization bonus that affect Cavalry Archers and skirmishers(parthian tactics, cheaper skirmishers(byzantines), faster fire(mongols), recurve bow(magyars),etc)

Britons:
Warwolf: Increase blast radius to 0.8

Bulgarians:
-Konnik(mounted) hit points decreased to 95-115(Elite)
-Konnik(mounted)(dismounted) rate of fire decreased to 2.2
-Konnik(dismounted) Attack bonus vs Standard buildings increased to 6

Burgundians:
-Coustillier Charge attack increased to 30-35(Elite)
-Coustillier Base speed reduced to 1.10-1.20(Elite) [1.21-1.32 speed after husbandry]
-Coustillier recieves +0.3 speed when the charge attack is ready

Burmese:
Howdah: Battle elephants +0/+3 armor

Byzantines:
-Bug fix: Greek fire no longer decreases fire Ships accuracy

Celts:
Stronghold: Castles fire 25% faster, towers fire 35% faster

Ethiopians:
-Receive +150 food and +150 gold whenever a new Age is reached
-Spearman line upgrades are free

Indians:
-Imperial Camel Rider hit points increased to 145
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs cavalry increased to 20
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs camels increased to 10
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs elephants increased to 15
-Elephant archer cost increased to 110f 70g
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Spearman increased to 2-3(Elite)
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Archers increased to 1-2(Elite)
-Elephant archer recieves a 0.5 blast radius (3 area damage) on ranged attack
-Shatagni cost increased to 550f 400g
Shatagni: Hand Cannoneers +1 range and deal +5 damage vs infantry
-bug fix: Shatagni no longer decreases Hand Cannoneers accuracy

Italians:
Pavise: Archery range units, Condottiero and Genoese Crossbowman +1/+1 armor
Silk road:
-first option: Trade units are 35% cheaper and have +15% speed and work rate
-second option part one: Trade units are 30% cheaper, markets generate 0.5 gold every 2 seconds
-second option part two: New civ bonus: Italians can only build 6 markets

Magyars:
-Scout Cavalry line is 15%/25% cheaper starting in feudal/castle age and has +1/+3/+6 Attack bonus vs villagers starting in dark/feudal/castle age

Malay:
-Demolition raft line 20% cheaper
-Harbor range increased to 9
-Harbor Rate of fire decreased to 2.75
-Harbor recieves a secondary arrow in imperial age, wich has 1 attack and +5 vs ships, +4 vs fishing ships Bonus Attack

Malians:
-Infantry units have +1/+2/+3 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

Portuguese:
-Organ Gun range increased to 8
-Organ Gun attack decreased to 15-19
-Organ Gun main projectile Attack bonus vs infantry increased to 4
-Organ Gun secondary projectiles Attack bonus vs infantry increased to 2
-Carrack cost increased to 500w 650g
Carrack: Ship armor +1/+1 and +1 ship armor class

Saracens:
-Camel Riders +15 hit points
Madrasah: Converting a unit gives you 15 gold
Zealotry: Camel Riders and Mamelukes +20 hit points
-Mameluke speed reduced to 1.35
-Remove archer armor class from mameluke
-Reduce Mameluke cost from 55f 80g
-Increase Mameluke frame delay to 0.5-0.3

Sicilians:
-Siege units recieve +4 Siege weapon armor class
-Serjeants Standard Building attack bonus increased to 4-6(Elite)
First Crusade: Upon researching, each Town Center (up to 5) spawns a one-time group of 7 Serjeants. Serjeants recieve +10 Hit points
Scutage: Upon researching, each team member receives a one-time payment of 7 gold for each military unit that they own. Every time someone of your team creates a unit, the player who created it recieves 5 gold

Slavs:
-Remove Supplies is free
-Remove supplies from tech tree
-Militia line cost -20%/-35%/-50% food in feudal/castle age/imperial age
Orthodoxy: Converted units are healed in 20 hit points
-Druzhina: Cost increased to 1700f 600g
Druzhina: Infantry deals trample damage, and Spearman line wood cost replaced by aditional food cost

Teutons:
-Archery range units recieve +1/+0 armor in castle age

Vietnamese:
Paper money: Tributes 200 gold to each ally, and your Lumberjacks generate 0.020 (with full upgrades) while gathering wood

[MatCauthon3]

@The12Reaper12

Aztecs:
-Units created 13% faster
-Start with +75 gold
Garland wars: +5 infantry attack

Aztecs don’t need buffs.

@The12Reaper12

Britons:
Warwolf: Increase blast radius to 0.8

Britons don’t need a buff either.

@The12Reaper12

Burgundians:
-Coustillier Charge attack increased to 30-35(Elite)
-Coustillier Base speed reduced to 1.10-1.20(Elite) [1.21-1.32 speed after husbandry]
-Coustillier recieves +0.3 speed when the charge attack is ready

I’d rather find a way to buff this civ that doesnt mean buffing the unique unit.

@The12Reaper12

Celts:
Stronghold: Castles fire 25% faster, towers fire 35% faster

another civ that doesn’t need buffs.

@The12Reaper12

Ethiopians:
-Receive +150 food and +150 gold whenever a new Age is reached
-Spearman line upgrades are free

they tried free halb in the past. it was too op.

@The12Reaper12

-Imperial Camel Rider hit points increased to 145
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs cavalry increased to 20
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs camels increased to 10
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs elephants increased to 15

dear god why?

@The12Reaper12

-Elephant archer cost increased to 110f 70g
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Spearman increased to 2-3(Elite)
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Archers increased to 1-2(Elite)
-Elephant archer recieves a 0.5 blast radius (3 area damage) on ranged attack

blast radius on an archer unit? you got to be kidding me.

@The12Reaper12

Magyars:
-Scout Cavalry line is 15%/25% cheaper starting in feudal/castle age and has +1/+3/+6 Attack bonus vs villagers starting in dark/feudal/castle age

don’t think they need the bonus vs villagers.

@The12Reaper12

Malians:
-Infantry units have +1/+2/+3 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

another civ that doesn’t need buffs.

@The12Reaper12

Saracens:
-Camel Riders +15 hit points

why? their camels are fine as is.

@The12Reaper12

-Mameluke speed reduced to 1.35
-Remove archer armor class from mameluke
-Reduce Mameluke cost from 55f 80g
-Increase Mameluke frame delay to 0.5-0.3

this is more of a nerf then a buff.

@The12Reaper12

Teutons:
-Archery range units recieve +1/+0 armor in castle age

wasted bonus. also this civ already has hordes of civ bonuses.

[Szebo210]

just read the first 4 yet but lemme comment on those
out of 3 of the first 4 id do the complete opposite
-nerf aztecs
-nerf warwolf
-slightly buff konniks

i guess the game has a good balance state when people have the complete opposite opinion

[MatCauthon3]

@Szebo210

-nerf aztecs
-nerf warwolf
-slightly buff konniks

i don’t know if i would say nerf aztecs or warwolf but they surely don’t need buffs. as for konniks i think maybe a slight attack speed increase would be okay.

[ReanuKeeves00]

@The12Reaper12

Aztecs:
-Units created 13% faster
-Start with +75 gold
Garland wars: +5 infantry attack

Not sure if Aztecs really need any of these buffs. If anything there’s only one thing I’d add… the unit from the converted stables (Xolotl warrior?) should have the stats of a light cav with extra armor(due to aztecs lacking blacksmith techs), and maybe a cost 90 food. That way converting a stable wouldn’t be completely useless as it is right now.

@The12Reaper12

Berbers:
Maghrebi Camels: increase regeneration to 20 per minute
-Genitour affected by all technologies and civilization bonus that affect Cavalry Archers and skirmishers(parthian tactics, cheaper skirmishers(byzantines), faster fire(mongols), recurve bow(magyars),etc)

No, Camel Archers are already a strong kill-all unit, they don’t need this. I think Genitour should benefit from upgrades that affect skirmishers, and not CA. A unit throwing spears getting affected by
recurve bow makes no sense.

@The12Reaper12

Britons:
Warwolf: Increase blast radius to 0.8

Bulgarians:
-Konnik(mounted) hit points decreased to 95-115(Elite)
-Konnik(mounted)(dismounted) rate of fire decreased to 2.2
-Konnik(dismounted) Attack bonus vs Standard buildings increased to 6

Burgundians:
-Coustillier Charge attack increased to 30-35(Elite)
-Coustillier Base speed reduced to 1.10-1.20(Elite) [1.21-1.32 speed after husbandry]
-Coustillier recieves +0.3 speed when the charge attack is ready

Feel neutral about these ones.

@The12Reaper12

Ethiopians:
-Receive +150 food and +150 gold whenever a new Age is reached
-Spearman line upgrades are free

NOPE. This would be just OP.

@The12Reaper12

Indians:
-Imperial Camel Rider hit points increased to 145
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs cavalry increased to 20
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs camels increased to 10
-Imperial Camel Rider Attack bonus vs elephants increased to 15
-Elephant archer cost increased to 110f 70g
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Spearman increased to 2-3(Elite)
-Elephant archer Attack bonus vs Archers increased to 1-2(Elite)
-Elephant archer recieves a 0.5 blast radius (3 area damage) on ranged attack
-Shatagni cost increased to 550f 400g
Shatagni: Hand Cannoneers +1 range and deal +5 damage vs infantry
-bug fix: Shatagni no longer decreases Hand Cannoneers accuracy

Indians Elephant Archers do really suck, but to be honest, I’d just remove Shatagni, and replace it with a tech that adds +2 range to Elephant Archers and slight bonus dmg vs trash, so that they have a chance to actually kill halbs before the halbs can close in. Hand Cannons are pretty bad units anyway, and Shatagni doesn’t make them any more viable, so the tech is worthless.

@The12Reaper12

Italians:
Pavise: Archery range units, Condottiero and Genoese Crossbowman +1/+1 armor
Silk road:
-first option: Trade units are 35% cheaper and have +15% speed and work rate
-second option part one: Trade units are 30% cheaper, markets generate 0.5 gold every 2 seconds
-second option part two: New civ bonus: Italians can only build 6 markets

I’d just remove Silk Road as a tech because it’s completely worthless in any situation, ever. No one ever needs to research this. Just give them something that can buff the Condottiero a little bit.

@The12Reaper12

Magyars:
-Scout Cavalry line is 15%/25% cheaper starting in feudal/castle age and has +1/+3/+6 Attack bonus vs villagers starting in dark/feudal/castle age

This sounds OP as hell, definitely would make Magyars WAY too strong early game. You’d have to give them some UBER nerf to justify adding this.

@The12Reaper12

Malay:
-Demolition raft line 20% cheaper
-Harbor range increased to 9
-Harbor Rate of fire decreased to 2.75
-Harbor recieves a secondary arrow in imperial age, wich has 1 attack and +5 vs ships, +4 vs fishing ships Bonus Attack

Malay seem like a pretty fine and strong civ, not sure if they really need any buffs.

@The12Reaper12

Portuguese:
-Organ Gun range increased to 8
-Organ Gun attack decreased to 15-19
-Organ Gun main projectile Attack bonus vs infantry increased to 4
-Organ Gun secondary projectiles Attack bonus vs infantry increased to 2
-Carrack cost increased to 500w 650g
Carrack: Ship armor +1/+1 and +1 ship armor class

This feels like a change just for the sake of changing stuff. Not clear on what exactly any of this would improve.

@The12Reaper12

Saracens:
-Camel Riders +15 hit points
Madrasah: Converting a unit gives you 15 gold
Zealotry: Camel Riders and Mamelukes +20 hit points
-Mameluke speed reduced to 1.35
-Remove archer armor class from mameluke
-Reduce Mameluke cost from 55f 80g
-Increase Mameluke frame delay to 0.5-0.3

Like above, not sure why this change is necessary. Saracen Camels are already damn strong, so giving them even more HP seems not needed.
Mamelukes also don’t need tweaking. They are already THE BEST at their intended purpose (countering Paladins) so no reason to change them.

@The12Reaper12

Sicilians:
-Siege units recieve +4 Siege weapon armor class
-Serjeants Standard Building attack bonus increased to 4-6(Elite)
First Crusade: Upon researching, each Town Center (up to 5) spawns a one-time group of 7 Serjeants. Serjeants recieve +10 Hit points
Scutage: Upon researching, each team member receives a one-time payment of 7 gold for each military unit that they own. Every time someone of your team creates a unit, the player who created it recieves 5 gold

This feels like change for the sake of change, do not see why any of this would be good.

@The12Reaper12

Slavs:
-Remove Supplies is free
-Remove supplies from tech tree
-Militia line cost -20%/-35%/-50% food in feudal/castle age/imperial age
Orthodoxy: Converted units are healed in 20 hit points
-Druzhina: Cost increased to 1700f 600g
Druzhina: Infantry deals trample damage, and Spearman line wood cost replaced by aditional food cost

NOPE. This would give them too much overlap with Goths.

@The12Reaper12

Teutons:
-Archery range units recieve +1/+0 armor in castle age

They are meant to use siege to counter archers. This would help the civ a bit too much.

@The12Reaper12

Vietnamese:
Paper money: Tributes 200 gold to each ally, and your Lumberjacks generate 0.020 (with full upgrades) while gathering wood

I’d just remove this tech entirely and replace it with some other buff. Maybe a discount on farms or something.

[phoenix1089]

@Szebo210

i guess the game has a good balance state when people have the complete opposite opinion

and this is why i hate these kinds of balance threads… because people look at them and then extrapolate onto every potentially decent idea…

the OP is completely misguided on his ideas, but it doesnt mean that everyone else is wrong because this specific guy has such bad ideas…

[Szebo210]

@MatCauthon3

i don’t know if i would say nerf aztecs or warwolf but they surely don’t need buffs. as for konniks i think maybe a slight attack speed increase woulde be okay.

i actually agree, would neither nerf aztecs or warwolf, because imo both the civ and the UT is in a good spot imo, but have the mention that both are very very strong, aztecs in definitely one of the best civs while warwolf is undoubtably one of the best UT if not the best since it lets you automatically win all treb wars since it also gives trebs 100% accuracy
what i’d emphasize is none of them need buffs

[Szebo210]

@phoenix1089

and this is why i hate these kinds of balance threads… because people look at them and then extrapolate onto every potentially decent idea…

the OP is completely misguided on his ideas, but it doesnt mean that everyone else is wrong because this specific guy has such bad ideas…

regarding 1v1 civ balance i think we are almost at a perfect position, only cumans need big changes with burmese getting slight buffs.
though general balance should be tweaked a lot while not changing civ balance for example long swords hand cannons and steppe lancer buffs
and some nearly useless UTs should also be changed

teamgame balance is another chapter though… not even close to be done lol (tired playing and seeing crossbow knight games)

but i’ve been complaining a lot on water unbalance , and that’s finally in a lot better state ,(also italians didn’t become the worst naval civ with huge nerf on dock discount, like many said against my arguments )

[JokerPenguin593]

@anon45959656

I’d just remove this tech entirely and replace it with some other buff. Maybe a discount on farms or something.

I know that it was an idea made on the fly, but a discount on farms in imperial age is not very useful… unless you make them supply a lot of food, or infinite food as malay fish traps.

I like paper money and I would make it to affect the market value instead.
However, Vietnamese bank notes system failed in the middle ages because people still preferred to use coins. Here is some historical basis related to paper money. http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/special-reports/83771/over-600-year-history-of-vietnam-banknotes.html
If the tech failed in real life, maybe we could replace it. I dont know enough about vietmese story to suggest another one.

[FadedFriend2906]

Most of your supposed changes are fine, but not needed.
I especially like your suggestions for aztecs, teutons and vietnamese.
The buffs for ethiopians and magyars might be a tad too sharp, but it wouldnt be ridiculously op or anything.
What i think needs rebalancing the most are not civs, but certain units that dont have a lot of relevance in competetive play. (i.e. longswords, steppe lancers, battle elephants)

[MatCauthon3]

@FadedFriend2906

I especially like your suggestions for aztecs

dear god, why? they are one of the best civs in the game.

[CactusSteak2171]

Lol is this “buff everything, the thread”? Also I can’t resist stating how funny I find the idea of buffing first crusade to make it even stronger than what is was at release 11

[CheshireWig3203]

Tomorrow = New patch?

[ReanuKeeves00]

@JokerPenguin593

I know that it was an idea made on the fly, but a discount on farms in imperial age is not very useful… unless you make them supply a lot of food, or infinite food as malay fish traps.

Yeah on a hindsight, probably not a very good imperial age bonus indeed. But it can be helpful on maps where wood isnt as abundant, but someone could come up with a good idea for a permanent bonus instead of the one time thingy the paper money gives

[Equalizer938341]

With all due respect, i have to say NO to everything you suggested! None of your suggestions make any sense! Buff civs don’t need a buff, this is what your topic telling us!

[FadedFriend2906]

you say that, but they have a 49% win rate

[MatCauthon3]

yes and if we used ladder winrates for everything, chinese would need buffs too.
but both are among the most commonly used civs in tournaments.
whats that tell you?

also a 49% winrate is well within balanced winrates.

[SauravT]

@The12Reaper12

Infantry units have +1/+2/+3 pierce armor in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age

@The12Reaper12

Garland wars: +5 infantry attack

I know where this is going. Just give Jaguar warriors +1 attack but -1 attack vs infantry. This makes Aztec Jaguars (like Aztec champions) take out villagers in 2 hits. Also, would interchange the gold and food costs so that it is more viable and gold can better be spent on eagles or siege.

@The12Reaper12

faster fire

Already there.

@The12Reaper12

cheaper skirmishers

Already there for Huns. I am not saying both civs shouldn’t have it. If devs want to avoid overlap, I would rather give it to Huns who have worse Skirmishers and a mobile army in general, so it synergises better. Cheap Genitours lacking last armor will be the quantity over quality theme.

@The12Reaper12

parthian tactics

I want this one though.

@The12Reaper12

Start with +75 gold

It is basically a drush bonus. 6 militia drush will be cancer.

@The12Reaper12

recurve bow

Already there for Aztecs with Atlatl, which I like. Like my previous argument for Byz vs Huns, sure Magyars have a more mobile army. But they also have a wider tech tree with full Arbalesters and Paladins. They also have a great trash unit in Huszars.

@The12Reaper12

Bulgarians:
-Konnik(mounted) hit points decreased to 95-115(Elite)
-Konnik(mounted)(dismounted) rate of fire decreased to 2.2
-Konnik(dismounted) Attack bonus vs Standard buildings increased to 6

I would actually reverse some of their changes.

Konniks (mounted and dismounted) attack every 2.1 (middle ground between DE release 1.8 and present 2.4) seconds. Paladins added. Stirrups gives a 11.1% (presently 33%) attack boost to all cavalry units. Konniks go to 1.9, presently they are 1.8. Knights and Cavaliers go to 1.62. Paladins and Hussars go to 1.71 almost as fast as an Elite Cataphract). At present Hussars are at 1.425 and Cavaliers at 1.35.

Bagains Effect decreased to +4 armor and cost changed accordingly. Champion added to tech tree, but Champion isn’t free.

[FadedFriend2906]

yea, as i said: they dont need to get buffed.
and if they got buffed they wouldnt be op either, the suggested buff is smaller than their most recent nerf and even before that they werent like the only dominant civ in tournaments, just one of the best, not the single best or anything.

[AttilaTheHUN270]

i do not understand some ppl asking so many unnecessary buffs with crazy ideas…%100 Unnecessary!