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I think that’s what you meant to reply so I’ll respond to that. Yes they rightly received certain nerfs such as garrisoning instantly in the fort and military shipments to the chasqui (somehow that’s fine for an age 2 daimyo though lol). The stealth card used to be a fun gimmick but stealth in general got nerfed so that is useless now. Chincha rafts have recieved so many nerfs already, particularly the nerf to water dance and nerfing yet more range off of them was just unnecessary. Other civs also got given coastal defences and that combined with heated shot from the arsenal just shreds chincha rafts that already have low HP. Inca have no monitor or battleship that can deal with coastal defences, inca don’t even have regular canoes.
The problem with the kancha boom is you no longer have a war hut age up so if you want to do it safely you need to send the 2 war hut card and then send 600 wood, it’s even less viable now because you could have possibly relied upon using monumental architecture and tc fire but that’s been nerfed further. It’s just significantly slower now, kancha big button for 4 vills also costs 900 res so that’s useless.
The maceman changes are great I agree but that’s not exactly compensation for these nerfs all it is is making a unit useable that’s been dead wood since release.
Yeah but it’s the same principle of when you get to age 3 and unlock the halbs and skirms with already the veteran upgrade researched.
I mean, if you would have to wait until an age later to unlock a unit a unit that doesn’t have comparable stats with other units of the that age, then what is the point of training that unit…
Yeah but you have 5 villagers that takes 10 pop, cost 680 coins and build about as fast as a settler 1 building at a time, the more the games goes on and the more the enemy armies will destroy your buildings faster then your architects building speed.
So, yes it’s strong but it’s like it magically spawn any building at any time, and if they turtle, you can always outboom them.
Massing architects delay your age up time by quite a bit, both for the idle TC time, and for the gold costs. And when you hit industrial, you also lack 1 factory.
Then again, some tweaks to better balance them can be found for sure, but saying that they are OP seems a bit to harsh…
No not at all, it costs a shipment so equivalent 700 resources and 250 wood so you’re paying 950 resources for 600 res worth of buildings and ability to train age 3 units early. The bolas warrior will have 1 less range and 25% less attack and HP than it does in fortress. The huaraca will start with 25% less attack and HP, 8 less range(so a range of just 12 like a musk) and 12 less siege range.
The only possible use could be to make macemen now they’re actually an ok unit with really high siege but they also start with 25% less attack and HP and is it worth it to spend 250 wood and a shipment for the ability to train just those when alternatively you could just FF and ship 5 macemen.
Destroying basilica/lombards are a complete waste of time.
Watch Breeze laming this stuff on his streams and learn how the build works before commenting: Twitch
See if it matters when his opponents destroys his lombards/basilica/towers like you say it matters.
Is not a big deal because Italy just plays SimCity on age2. Skips age3 completely and gets to age4 unharmed because you have a million buildings in your base.
Are you even playing ladder? Italy FI pretty much every single game. There is no age3 vs Italy. If you don’t need to play age3 and can get to age4 unharmed how is relevant that you don’t have skirms on age3?
No, I did not. You were making the point of: “Inca uses the gay Stronghold because they have no other option”. And I gave a couple of options that where decent and did not rely on the autistic stronghold.
You are the one that putted words in my mouth (Words in my texts ) saying that I said that this FF is “special”. I never used this adjective. I used far more modest terms like “solid” and “decent”.
This FF that I described you is faster than the Spanish one because you have the messenger on age1. German FF is not good, I think you mean semi-ff. And you have a really good fighting chance vs Otto FF with this build. You struggle against Abus, but every civ kind of does, so that not an exclusive problem of Inca.
Also, what you mean you don’t have shipments? You have 2 shipments when you get to age 3 if you get the wise woman.
14 tupis for 500g can be shipped twice, they shadowtech and are an even stronger version of Yumis that are already a quite strong unit that shits on skirmishers. Those two shipments alone can guarantee you a victory in skirmishers wars.
You have 8 and 7 bolas shipments, 7 and 6 huaracas, 9 chimus, 9 bows, hell, even 5 maces are good against cavalry-heavy civs. You can easily fit 5-6 units shipments in a deck, which is the healthy amount of unit shipments in a decently constructed deck.
Plus, you have eco options like 1000 wood for spamming kanchas, 2 town centers travois and even 8 villêigers sometimes are good.
Let’s be objective: Inca shipments are pretty decent, and you can play without that gay stronghold. Saying that you use the broken stronghold because you have “no other option” is just a lame excuse to play something that is clearly overpowered as the stronghold.
I can assure you that this FF build is competitive. I played it, won some games and lost some others. If you are searching for something “special” like that stronghold that is clearly on the spectrum, the FF is indeed not for you indeed. But I assure you it gives you decent fighting chances against most of the civs in the game.
Yeah indeed. I guess I got the impression that they have more range now because of the line of sight trick. (When a unit is charging an attack on a unit that is on the line of sight, they will still shoot on that unit even if that unit gets out of the line of sight during the “charge”) Is common because I pretty much always have more bow than my opponents have skirmishers, and I am poking. Curious isn’t?
But yeah, you can spam far more bows than other civs can spam skirmishers and just force a fight using better speed, sort of what you do with strelets. The comparison is not as half as bad as the ones you made it so far.
And most of bows cost is food, which is something Inca always have a lot of. Is super easy to triple rax bows, and you always outnumber you opponent’s skirmishers because they are so cheap. Bows are a great unit.
Yes, I use bow + bola + chimu with sometimes huaracas adding DPS or killing artillery behind pretty much always when I go Fortress with Inca. Sometimes I have 5-10 maces to help chimus to bodyblock heavy cavalry-civs like France/Germany/China.
And saying bola sucks because they don’t kill infantry is you being unobjective again. Bolas exists to kill cavalry/dragoons and add DPS behind Chimus. They are really good at their job that is killing cavalry and dragoons, so therefore they are a good unit. If I want to kill infantry, I use bow/tupi, chimus (If light infantry) or huaracas.
What do you want them to do to consider they good? Kill cavalry/dragoons AND infantry like they use to? You are asking from broken stuff to lame again.
I’m aware that it’s not necessarily going to stop the FI but you’re making out a line of buildings to be some huge deal when it’s not, it’s not going to delay you anymore than some walls will, you don’t need to sit there sieging a basilica or a lombard.
Whether it’s a deal for the FI is irrelevant, the FI is practically forced upon you as italy because otherwise you’ve got mediocre units and no skirm so what can you do. Italy FI is so popular because age 2 and age 3 italy is weak sauce. The point I was making is that they get the free guard upgrade at the cost of not having access to skirms in age 3.
I said that inca used to do the huaraca FF because everything else got nerfed, in particular kancha and water boom and later on the native rush basically got removed.
I don’t think you understand my point on the FF, inca might be able to do a fast FF like many civs can but you’re not hitting your opponent early with 8 pikes, 15 halbs, 2 falcs and 5 war dogs. You’ve got some bows and some huaracas, tc fire will kill huaracas just fine. Like the most you’ll have is 9 bows, 7 huaracas and possibly some pikes. I wouldn’t even sweat against that in fact town militia and a tower age up probably beats that by itself if you target the siege units. Tupi shipments are also neither here nor there for an FF you’re not going to have 500 gold stacked to even ship them once and even if you do they have zero siege.
The macemen is the only thing that may have improved it now, I’ve yet to try them post update but now 5 macemen has no cost perhaps that could provide a bit more much needed siege I’ll have to see but prior to this patch that was also a useless card.
The eco options for inca are fine I have no issue with that.
The stronghold isn’t ‘gay’ first of all and it’s no longer overpowered so I don’t get the problem with playing around the stronghold in fact the best chance you have of winning in fortress age is playing around the stronghold and retreating to it even though garrisoning is no longer as viable.
Bows won’t shoot until they are within range, regardless of line of sight. Same as with any unit. Bows are ok but they could do with a bit more range like +2 in fortress so they’re not kited as easily. The slightly higher speed than a standard skirm isn’t that important these days and there are plenty of fast skirms.
I doubt you outnumber skirms vs an FF as you have 1 shipment of bows and also need to upgrade your bows whilst other civs can hit age 3 and ship 8 and 7 skirms as well as making more, immediately at vet level.
I’m not saying they need to kill infantry but they should do ok, currently they perform poorly vs their counters. Huaracas lose cost effectively to any ranged infantry unit despite having a multiplier due to their terrible animation.
I don’t think it would be unreasonable that they kill infantry, huaracas have a multiplier vs infantry so why can’t bolas or at least remove the negative multiplier. Inca suffers from a lack of anti-infantry units due to no artillery so bolas could somewhat solve that issue. Even if they remain poor vs infantry I’d like them to actually be better than a spearmen considering they’re expensive units restricted to fortress age and beyond currently every inca player goes plumed spearmen.
Now I know why the older players don’t waste their time discussing on forums. xD
Well. Pretty much any good player is complaining about Italy right now, so it’s likely getting nerfed next patch no matter what some guy with suspicious game knowledge on the forums thinks. So, whatever.
No need to be rude, we’re all entitled to our own opinions and people can agree to disagree without resorting to petty and snide remarks. I’m a good player that doesn’t think italy is too strong, because they were fine before the patch and people are complaining about the FI which a couple of extra resource trickle cards for lombards won’t change in the slightest, you’d not want to waste cards on them over spamming all your age 4 shipments anyway.
If you were a good blayer you would know that Italy FI is broken and pretty much impossible to punish it, and not keep giving lame excuses for this broken build to exist in-game.
Especially saying things like “they don’t have skirms on age3”. Like it matters when you are pretty much guaranteed to get to age4 unharmed like Italy can do. Like how silly is this excuse? And the funniest part is you don’t even acknowledge on how stupid this statement is. xD
Also, I never saw a single good blayer that just don’t admit that Inca was broken back them. Even kynesie himself admitted that stronghold FF was broken, but you somehow refuse to do it. I guess you are the only one right about this.
But I am honestly pissed at myself, not with you. I should have stop replying when you were saying Inca was fine and was just nerfed because Kaiserklein complained (Like he was the only one complaining xD). But I wasted my time explaining you game stuff like it would matter. I guess that why the more veteran players in general tend to not waste their time on this kind of discussions. Is completely pointless.
Getting automatic guard skirms on age 4 is perfectly reasonable if you can’t get them in age 3. Far fewer games are decided in industrial than in commerce or fortress age.
Getting to age 4 unharmed or not has nothing to do with age 4 guard skirms being a trade off for not having access to them in age 3. It’s a very reasonable trade considering you need to spend 3K+ res just to reach age 4 so one free upgrade on a unit you haven’t even been able to mass prior to age 4 is absolutely fine. It’s not like you have 50 bersiglieri just ready to receive their guard tech.
For comparison the spanish soldado FI is much worse, not only can you get to age 4 untouched but you need zero resources from the moment you click up to industrial, you can leave 6 vills on in base berries and every new vill straight to haciendas to spawn guard soldados safely from in base.
The italian FI just relies on unit shipments, you have fewer vills due to delaying production to make 4 architects, you likely have a few batches of musk and 9 more from the age up. Typically you hit age 4 and push with your musks, 2 falcs you shipped in fortress and 3 more from industrial age up. After that it’s whatever shipments you have most likely 3 culverin, 2 bombards or the 25 native musk.
Again you’re not listening to anything I say, I have said several times now that the stronghold nerf was fine so I’ll mention it yet again that I am and was fine with the nerf. I was not fine with the overreaction of also nerfing all age 3 unit shipments, huaracas(became useless after this patch, later reverted that change) and the nerf to chasquis. All that was needed was the removal of instant garrisoning in the stronghold, that’s it.