Denmark-Norway (Danes) as a faction

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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this is my suggestion and design for a danish-norwegian faction for AOE 3 DE.

Denmark(-Norway)

Denmark-Norway is currently the only colonial power not in the game, the country was a major player in the start of periode and remained important till the Napoleonic war after which Norway was forced under Swedish rule under the peace term of the treaty of Vienna. In the half century following that Denmark fought 2 wars with the German confederation over the faith of Slesvig, a duchy on the Danish-German border with large populations of both Danes, Germans and Frisians.

My faction idea incorporates elements from the entire periode, from the Kalmar war to the 2nd Schleswigian war.

The faction is defensive in nature, with a strong navy and a strong lategame economy. it focuses on infantry with units specializing in a way most other factions simply don’t.

Capital: Copenhagen

leader: Christian 4.

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Christian the 4th is the longest reigning Danish Monarch and represent both a highpoint and a low point in Danish history. He reigned from 1588 to 1648, 60 years.

In terms of historical signifikans Christian built most of the famous buildings in modern day Copenhagen, started colonial expansion with colonies in Indias and a couple of decades after his death Denmark-Norway established colonies in the Caribbean.

As for Wars Christian lead Denmark into the Kalmar war which was a decisive Danish victory. Following this up Christian under promises from England and the Netherlands entered the 30 year war, the war proved disastrously for the Danish course, rather than taking the option to back out with a carte Blanche; Christian instead choose to take the battle and destroyed the Danish army in the process. This left Denmark open to a Swedish attack in the Torstenson war, a war Denmark never truly recovered from.

Units

Towncenter

volunteers/friskytte replaces minutemen, and have following changes:

doesn’t lose HP over time

can be sent infinite times

spawns less troops than regular minutemen

limited at any time by your number of Town centers (similar to native allies)

the unit allows Denmark to bolster their forces with a small number of minutemen units that don’t lose HP, the units lose effectiveness over the duration of the game due to their lag of upgrades, but will allow you to overpop your army a tiny bit at all times.

Barracks

Pikemen

unique cards:

protestant pikes (age 3 (team?)): increases their multiplier vs cavalry by +1 and changes their cost to gold from wood

The idea is that the unit is extra powerful against cavalry compared to other pikemen, giving Denmark a fairly unique way of fighting enemy cavalry even in to the late game. The pikemen inherently can be upgraded to imperial.

Landsoldat (age 2)

a musketeer that is slightly cheaper and weaker in melee than other musketeers

Hp: 150 MR: 10% speed 4.0 ranged: 12 range with 23 dmg melee: 10 dmg with a 2x multiplier vs cav.

cost 65 food and 25 gold

gain +5% MR per age, making their imperial melee resist a little better than musketeers.

unique cards:

national conscription (age 4): increases the units cost (75 f 35 g), increase range by 2, increase all dmg by 25%

This version of the muskteer provide Denmark with a cheap general purpose unit in the early game, But is drawn back by relatively high weakness to melee, the unit is still cost effective vs cavalry but is far from as useful at actually killing it as other muskteers. Later upgrades allows the unit to become stronger at both firefighting and holding its ground in melee but the unit never becomes a great option for cavalry. To an extend it can be seen as the opposite to the carolean, wanting to avoid melee when possible.

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(imperial age version, painting from the 2nd schlewegian war)

historically Landsoldats was like many other units in Europe at the time levied peasants from the country side given basic combat training, due to the nature of levying (essentially it was seen as a punishment) the moral and disciplin was lagging in the unit. Several battles with Sweden started out well for the Danish army but got turned once the lines got close to each other.

Sharpshooter (age 3)(guard upgrade: ski infantry)

A unique Skirmisher with more range

Hp: 120 RR: 30% speed: 4.0 ranged: 22 range with 16 dmg melee: 6 dmg (same multipliers as normal skirmishers)

cost 60 food and 65 gold

unique cards:

mountain warfare (age 3): increases dmg multiplier against infantry by +0.5

this unit of Norwegian sharpshooters gives Denmark a slightly better version of skirmishers than other nation while keeping it unique. the unit benefits from increased ranged and a very slight increase in dmg in return for an increase in food cost. the unique card allows them to become the strongest anti heavy infantry skirmisher in the game pop for pop while still performing below cassadors in other scenarios. the unit does not get skies.

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(norwegian ski troops in the Napoleonic war, industrial age look)

Sharpshooters where used frequently by Denmark, esp in the border territories of Sweden and Norway where the mountainous terrain made more regular warfare impractical. the sharpshooters where keen shooters and once killed a Swedish king poking his head over the top of a trench. By the Napoleonic war skies where often used in skirmishes with Swedish troops hense giving them their famous name of “ski infantry” and probably the most well known name internationally due to games like Civilization 5.

Stable

Hussars (guard upgrade: livgarden til hest)

shares upgrades with grenadiers but otherwise a pretty standard

Jutlander (age 3)

a unique Danish dragoon with more HP and a strong melee attack

Hp: 270 RR:30% speed: 7 ranged: 12 range with 22 damage melee: 25 dmg (same multipliers as dragoons)

cost: 120 food and 100 gold, 2 pop

unique cards:

slesvigske dragoner (age 3): +10% speed

or +.5 dmg vs heavy cavalry

This Danish dragoon is equipped for melee, it provides them with a strong dragoon that can quickly charge enemy exposed artillery and fight enemy cavalry in melee. The card increases their speed to make it easier for them to engage in melee or kite away. i don’t if they should be tagged as light or heavy cavalry, heavy might be more appropriate so they can fight skirmishers but also get countered by enemy dragoons.

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(as they looked in the Napoleonic era, note that pants change a lot picture to picture, guess this would be fortress age version)

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(as they looked during the 1st Schleswig war, guy on the left is a German POW, imperial/industrial age version)

Perhaps 1 of the more known Danish regiments, det Jydske dragoon regiment, are Danish dragoons infamous for their boldness in combat, equipped with carbines and sabers these guys are better in melee than their contemporaries.

Artillery Foundry

grenadiers (guard upgrade: fodgarden)

Danish grenadiers, used as a lifeguard.

(note: shares HC upgrades with heavy cavalry, similar to musk/grens for brits)

falcon

culverin

mortar

Dock

caravel replaced by kanonbÄd

KanonbÄd are forward firing rowboats that quickly can engage enemy, very cheap to produce but with less HP than the caravel.

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Emergency program to procure new ships for the English war (Danish-British war over napoleon war). the boats proved effective in the shallow and often narrow parts of the Danish coast.

Unique Features/economic stuff

limited settler population: 70

livestock pens are limited to 5

church card (Älvsborg Ransom):

German immigrants (800 food): sends 5 settler wagons and allows you to train them from your TC up to a limit of 10

Denmark invited many Germans up into southern Jutland/Slesvig to settle the hostile land for farming

impregnable defenses: walls, forts and outpost cost increase by 20% but hp and dmg goes up by 50%

The Danish capital withstood many assaults in the periode

defender of protestantisme (1500 wood): sends 25 pikemen, pikemen buffed by 20% attack and HP.

Denmark entered the 30 years war with an army of the time, which included many pikemen

homecity cards

Civil-state (age 3): increases production from estate and mills by 20%

Dairies (age 4): from now on all livestock at a livestock pen passively gives 1/1000th of their worth in food

TEAM Golden age (age 4): all economic upgrades are cheaper

Armed neutrality (age 3): trade posts give more resources

Øresund dues (age 3): gives a small stacking gold income from every card you sent from now on (think 0.1 gold a sec.)

Butter export (age 1): 20k food is exchanged for 30k gold, can be sent once.

Danish foundry (age 4): ships 1 heavy cannon immediately, cost 200 gold, can be sent infinite times.

Bhakti allies: similar to other nations allies. I would have preferred inuits or African allies but lagging those then these guys seems reasonable. Possible the upcoming African expansion will include natives useful to us here.

Revolutions

Norway: focuses on ski infantry, also avialable to sweden.

united states: same as everyone else

Slesvig-Holstein: economic focused revolution

Pan-Scandinavian: gain some Swedish units, also avilable to Sweden (who gains some Danish units)

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I think this would be a case or getting one of these civs as a Major civ, and the otehr as a Minor Settlement.

Norway did not really have an Empire at the time, but they did set up several communities and Town inside other Empires colonial territories, so I could see a Norwegian Community Minor Settlement showing up on some maps.

Danish would probably the actual civ, if I was to have a guess.

" Norwegians controlled the company SociĂ©tĂ© du Madal in Portuguese Mozambique, which owned coconut plantations and a palm oil factory. SociĂ©tĂ© du Madal used the forced labor of indigenous peoples to dig canals and drain swamps around the Zambezi to make way for plantations, in addition to operating the plantations themselves. Child laborers on Madal’s properties were paid in rotgut spirits, as was common for many companies operating in Mozambique during the colonial period. Christian Thams, a key founder and major shareholder of the company, had Mozambicans in lands the company controlled pay taxes directly to the company rather than the Portuguese colonial government, a venture sometimes more profitable than agricultural operations. Even after independence, thousands of workers continued to produce coconut oil for Madal into the 21st century.[2]

As an independent state in modern days, Norway occupied Erik the Red’s Land on Greenland from 1931 to 1933. Nils Larsen of Sandefjord’s expeditions of Antarctica led to Norway’s annexation of Bouvet Island in 1927 and Peter I Island in 1929.[3] Norway also maintains sovereignty of Queen Maud Land on Antarctica. Grytviken, the largest settlement on South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, was founded by Sandefjordian Carl Anton Larsen in November 1904. Although never Norwegian territories, many settlements throughout the world were established by Norwegians. Examples include the Norwegian Colony in California, Marburg in South Africa, Joinville in Brazil, and Norsewood in New Zealand.

Additional former territorial claims have included South Georgia Island, Fridtjof Nansen Land (1926-1929), Sverdrup Islands (1928-1930), and Inari, Finland (1942-1945)."

You can see that Norway never really was a Colonial Empire, or much of an Empire of any sort at the timeframe of AoE3.

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Denmark-Norway is 1 country, think of it the same way as Austria-Hungary, sure Hungary is important but still clearly under the leadership of Austria with an Austrian emperor, capital and foreign policy.

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This can be a good idea., but the limit must be very strict.
Overpopping units, no matter how weak, always cause issues in All-in style gameplay.
Could get an Age 4 card that greatly increases the limit, though, but diminishes the HP a bit.

Perhaps Rytterre?

" Organization of the Danish Heavy Cavalry

There were four regiments of of Danish heavy Cavalry (Rytterre), plus the King’s Livguard of Horse (Den Kongelige Livgarde til Hest). Each of the heavy Cavalry Regiments had 4 squadrons, each with a book strength of 160 men. The small Livguard of Horse had 2 squadrons of only 80 men each. It acted primarily as a bodyguard for the King, and saw action only during the assaults on Copenhagen in 1801 and 1807."

This will likely give you more Settler Wagons taht a lot of German decks out there, since almost none use Germantown Farmers.

This should be the initial Church card shipment that you get for free, since they all have a drawback.

Perhaps named Kalmar Guard?

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I know, but civs in this game only have a simple name, like Spanish or Dutch.
Dano-Norwegians does not really roll of the tongue, so they would probably just be name Danish.

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by ethnic naming i just call them Danes, since that is the continues state and since there are more Danes than Germans, Norwegians, Icelanders etc. in the country.

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If they did not lose HP, they should not be trained at the Town Hall. Let them lose HP.

A little bit uninteresting revolution. There could be Finland (the Kalmar Union along with Sweden covered Finland).

Kalmarians? (loose suggestion. I know it’s not true)

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Not a national-ethnic name like all the others.
Danish is better.

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I wrote it, LOL.

It is obvious that it would be hard to call civilizations official names etc.
For example:
We have Brits - it would be weird if they were called the United Kingdomians civ or English-Scot-Welsh-Irish civ.

Therefore, it is best to choose the name of a civilization from the main nation. And so we would:

  • Austrians (Austro-Hungarian Empire)
  • Poles (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth)
  • Danes (Kingdom of Denmark and Norway).

These are the best examples for civilizations that were relevant to the AoE 3 timeframe and which are not.

Italians are a different situation. Same as the Germans. The idea of ​​their country selection mechanics in the new century (e.g. Tuscany, Sicily, Genoa, Papal State, Florence, Venice etc) is interesting. It was supposed to be in the original version of the game, but the developers cut the content. I hope that if Italians show up, it will come with this mechanic.

It would be nice if the Germans used the same mechanics (e.g. Saxony, Bavaria, Westphalia, Prussia, Brandenburg etc.). After all, both these civilizations united in the given times - they have a lot in common. Anyway, they have always had friendly relations with each other and were allies.

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Should probably have a population cost if theyre infinite. Or get a cooldown on the ability.

Don’t know if the bigger cav multiplier is enough to make them interesting. Especially when there is also a card that makes Dragoons better against melee cav, the prime target of Pikemen. Where Pikes a big thing in Denmark?

I like the design idea behind it, it’s similar in a way to I envisioned them. Focussing more on shooting than melee fighting. Synergizes nicely with wanting players to use the Pikes.

Bit better Skirmisher. No other cards besides the mountain warfare should keep them balanced enough.

I couldnt find much about Danish cavalry tbh. There is no shame in having less unique units. France basically has one and performs fine.

Seems better than Pikes especially with that card. Dragoons are just very good units :<

No horse artillery?

Why replace the Caravel? It could just be another unit.

Why? The eco bonusses don’t seem that crazy and all require cards.

I’d say remove the ability to train extra settler wagons. In what age is it available?
Impregnable walls just seems not fun to play against if Im honest.
I do like another Pike upgrade, 20% buff is big. How many other +atk and +HP cards should they get?

Trickles are tricky (haha) becoming either too good or not worth it fast. Are the trickle cards the reason for the reduced settler cap?

If they introduce Danes, I wouldnt be surprised to see Inuit and Greenlands maps appear.

Slesvig-Holstein and Pan-Scandinavian seems unneeded. 2 revolutions is fine I think.

I made a small attempt at a Danish civ a while back as well, I could post it if you like. I had trouble finding good sources, I assume you can find more in Danish.

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They were a big thing in the 30 Years War, which is likely where the original civ he designed was going to sit in, in the timefram, since he chose Christian IV as the civ leader.

References to Protestantism and a lot of the other elements, are very much in line with Denmark-Norway being another 30 Years War inspired civ, like Germans and Swedes.

Because the Galley also replaces the Caravel. You really do not want to have a civ make more Naval units than the others, or it will be OP, since Boats are extremely limited (only 5 Caravels, only 3 Galleons
).

I agree. 5 Settler Wagons is already good enough as it is.

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I think that the Danes, due to being a sea power, should have a lot of unique things related to the navy.

Havn (in Danish - harbor) - this would be a building that replaces the usual Docks. He would not train units individually, but like the Russian Blockhouse - he would train units in groups, eg 5 x Fishing Boat, 2 x Caravel, etc. There would be many improvements for naval units in this building. One time it would be possible to train a very expensive “Sþvérnet” consisting of a group of ships, eg 4 x Caravel 2 x Galleon and 1 x Frigate.

Danes should have at least one / two unique naval units.

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Spanish, Portuguese and British were the major Naval Powers in World History, but have no Unique Water Units, and his version of Danish does have a Caravel replacement, so they would be unique enough on their navy.

This building would have to cost around 600 Wood, because it is way too strong to produce Ships in batches.

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Only that the Danes were a typical maritime civilization - more than Spanish, Portuguese and British.

The Danes are famous for only their naval battles, they were average in land wars. The Portuguese and Spanish were famous for their colonialism, and the British were all talents - they were great both at sea and on land. Hence they became the greatest empire in human history.

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I know, but Im wondering about Denmark in particular. Since he seems to put such a focus on the Pikes.

Fair, but the Kanonbad seems a bit designed to be crappy :stuck_out_tongue: Similar to the native canoos.

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Nope.
Portuguese and British are the very archetypes of Naval Civilization.

No one took to the Seas like the Ports and the Brits, not even the Dutch.

Not really, since it does have a cannon attack. Probably has a higher build limit too, to compensate.

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This is a pointless argument.

The Russians have their capital in Saint Petersburg. Their flag comes from 1699 - it was introduced by Peter the Great. But unfortunately the ruler of the Russians civ in AoE 3 is - Ivan the Terrible 

The Russians have units from the period of his rule.

Apart from the inaccuracies related to the compatibility conflict in this civ. This civilization unfairly shows not only the Russians, but also the entire Eastern Europe (it is the only Eastern European civ). The ruler is a mentally ill tyrant. We have
Oprichnik - a unit that Ivan the Terrible used to use terror against his subjects. They were used to massacre Novgorod. In the game, this unit is best for attacking Settlers 


Why do the Russians have such a ruler?
Why do they have units that are open to terrorism?

After all, by AoE 3, the best possible ruler would be Peter the Great, who founded Saint Petersburg and began to reform his state.

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What does any of this have to do with Danish Pikemen?
Are you just trying to start some sort of discussion about Early Modern russian politics?

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The fact that you say that the units have to adapt to the reign of the ruler depicted in the game.

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I did not say that. I simply said the OP gave them Pikemen likely because he wanted to design the Dano-Norwegians/Danish civ based more on the 30 Years War, and so wanted them to have decent Pikemen.