Okay. This really needs to be said. Dutch should have a musketeer.
They= the Devs.
They gave almost every euro civ a Musket type infantry deal of a unit.
They gave Germany Super boost via Hanover. x30 musk that level up and cav that does a super attack- Which is OP in sup and treaty- Drummers are also insanely useful in treaty especially
They gave France- A bit of freakin everything!
The current Jannisaries of Ottoman are crazy tanky and especially much better in treaty!

I dont know how or what would the Dutch Musketeers be implemented but they should be able to access it at late game kind of like how Ports get better Crossbows or how FREAKIN FRANCE GETS ACCESS TO GRENADIERS from the church card!

I hope you consider it! Besides the Dutch did go through a bit of reforms to rely less on mercenaries and militia and form an actual backbone for their military.

If the cost of accessing them is reasonably high. Its fine.



the dutch is one of the last remaining actually unique factions that doesn’t simply get every unit type in the game. giving them musk would be a mistake, and also kind of pointless, they have so many other anti cav options, both their guard units are anti cav and they get skirmishers early.


You can ship some irish musk in age 2 now at least.


Dutch have Pikeman, Halberdier and Ruyter. It is more than enough to counter heavy cavalry.


strongly disagree

you really don’t need musketeers to have a good civ, Germans is fairly strong without any musk.

what the dutch need is some sort of age2 options, its tempo is super weak in comparison with other civs. i often have to stay in my base until i get a decent mass since other civs can mass up way quicker.


I think the tempo problem might come from people choosing to boom instead of making units.


Nope, they don’t ‘need’. They’re far from having a small selection of units, and that’s without taking into account mercenaries on maps, as shipments, and other sources.


Can obtain brigadiers in age II, musks with church card and fusiliers in age IV.
Mercs or native musks in some maps.

Now Im enough satisfied with musks options.

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hey che,let’s take a vote and see if dutch needs musketeers

Just keep sending fusiliers like the rest of us worms. Not the the Dutch lack for gold and popspace - I’d expect that adding a more standard musk would come at the cost of the whole bank thing that enables mercs so well with dutch in the first place and thats not really a good trade imo, especially for treaty.

We don’t need every civ turning into a jack of all trades. And Dutch already have great anti cav options.


You gain fusiliers with mercenary contractor.
honesty, ryuters are basically mounted musketeers.

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Gameplay wise they certainly don’t need musketeers.

But it is a bit odd that the faction led by the first pioneer of line infantry combat does not have reliable acces to them.

I’d say just have them unlock with the church tech, its age IV anyway iirc.

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Dutch had crossbow in the beta, but has removed for unknow reason.
This made him just too advanced, doesn’t fit 16th centuries.
Should return crossbow and give them historical battles or even campaign, just like Ports.

One option could be to have European Arquebusiers that could be a more primitive unit for Dutch instead of early Skirmishers.


Dutch got the amazing “quirk” of all. It’s army sinergise with economy.
Skirms? Cost more gold
Ryuter? Cost more gold
Artillery? Cost more gold…

Dutch swin in gold… I think it’s even unfair against the rest. No army got this perfect sinergy.

Yeah dutch mining is faster too. The whole civ is designed to make gold units. So musk doesn’t fit here, unless it cost 25 f 75 g for dutch.

The Dutch have the god-king unit of the Fusilier. Though, I must put this out there, I ONLY play 60 minute treaty matches so everyone has time to get all their upgrades and get a massive army. When I play the Dutch I get like 50 Fusiliers, with 525HP, 110 ranged attack, 80 siege, 70 melee, and they’re like tanks. Fast, hard hitting, destroy anything. And since they only cost gold, which aren’t a problem for the Dutch, they’re great. I don’t even waste money on the halberdier or skirmisher they have, just Fusiliers, Ruyters and heavy cannons.

Again, just from a treaty standpoint, I know in fast paced games, it’s very rare that someone gets time to train enough mercenaries and take advantage of the mercenary imperial age upgrade.

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In normal game this is difficult to do. Also the stats you mentioned doesn’t sound very strong. 3 musk combined have better stats.

A civ that has better halberdiers than other civs + insane ranged cavalry doesn’t need musketeer.

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