European Natives for European maps

[M00Z1LLA]

@DonHabsburg

Five maps is a rather arbitrary number

It is not, see below:

Maps and Minor Civs imbalance by region

Hey everyone! Interesting topic. I’d like to provide some insight how the picks for maps and natives came to be. Obviously the big majority of maps and natives was inherited from ES/BHG. With the limited time I do think they overall made a good job of picking relevant people for minor civs. However, we’re aware they’re far from perfect and that certain continents are underrepresented. That has several reasons! The big amount of American maps can be easily explained with the base…

Also, Huron are on 4 maps currently (they are also on Great Lakes and Saguenay).

@DonHabsburg

Kalmyks and Tatars, can find a home as far away as the Himalayas and Manchuria

Tatars from Eastern Europe aren’t really the same thing as the people in Manchuria, but you could probably stretch them to quite a few maps. It’s more super specific stuff ones like Crimean Goths that are unrealistic, especially when they overlap with better options like Tatars. Tatars, Greeks, and Circassians might be plausible options, but only if you go well beyond Europe.

@DonHabsburg

Finally, they can do some stretching to put some civilizations not precisely where they were, as they’ve done (rather notoriously) with Zapotecs

That should be fixed, not doubled down upon. I made a post complaining about it.

Replace minor tribes that are in the wrong location

Several of the South American maps have native settlements of tribes that live far away in Mesoamerica. Orinoco has Caribs, Mayans, and Zapotec (Mayans and Zapotec should not be here) Andes has Quechua, Mapuche, and Zapotec (Zapotec should not be here) Amazonia has Quechua, Tupi, and Zapotec (Zapotec should not be here and Quechua barely lived here) Sonora has Apache, Navajo, and Maya (Maya should not be here) There are two significant and fascinating native civilizations that could be added …

@DonHabsburg

If there are problems with some civs like the Swiss or Belgians, we can fix it by turning those into mercenary camps

Mercenaries (high population) are kind of the opposite of natives (no population). A settlement to hire the existing mercenaries probably could be workable though.

@DonHabsburg

Rhinelanders/Hessians abstract to fit all of West/Central Germany. Bavarians are rather specific

But we already have a German civ (and mercenaries) that can cover most of these peoples, I don’t think we need 10 more flavours of German (I realize suggesting a Hansa Kontor is a bit hypocritical, but it is widely distributed and not entirely German).

@DonHabsburg

Obviously the “Vagabond” refers to the stereotype that Roma people are all thieves and beggars. Finally, as I’ve said, the Roma are pacifistic, they don’t get involved in wars or national politics, and would never make an alliance knowing their people would get thrown into the frontlines of combat.

“Vagabond” is a pretty neutral term and if it is a spy unit, it’s not really a front line warrior. The Romani are widespread and overlooked, so it would be plausible for a few of them to be spies and informers. I also suggested a Vardo as a secondary unique economic unit and based none of their techs on thievery. Some of them did even get involved in politics and conflicts (like this guy Ștefan Răzvan).

Overall, it’s probably a pointless argument since we will likely never see European maps.