Haud is one of the strongest civilisation in the game at competitive top level. They have explorer crackshot ability which you can always get benefit from killing or reducing health of several units when used effectively, one of the best skirmisher unit in age 3 and kanye with musket riders are great against artillery, aenna is one of strongest light infantry in age 2 with it’s cost and 3x card potential combined with war chief aura. Haud has one of the fastest age up potential in the game, they can click age at early times such as 2:20, tomahawks have great bonus against melee cav and haud doesn’t ever need them to be stronger since their all other units are way cost efficient and stronger than other civilisations. Haud can still water start for additional 4-5 fishing boats which gives them a great amount of economy boost, always ages up with a warhut so it’s nearly impossible to rush against a haud player, also it’s not possible to prevent haud from going fast fortress because of the strong defend potentials and 800 crates is a quite solid shipment with big button potentials haud has which makes the attempts useless. Haud can take the map control and TP line in most of the MUs they play, Haud FI is even more of a balance concern which decent amount of civs can’t prevent from happening e.g dutch port, as haud FI you can go for a huge amount of light cannons protected with tomahawks you generally recieve from the big buttons and have a very strong army. Light cannons are way too cheap and you can get more than 8 light cannons very fast in as haud in early game which would require opponent to make so many culvs also light cannons have great speed so you can just hit and run with them. Haud has so many balance concerns mainly in age 4, especially considering it’s not possible to stop it from happening, it should be changed to be more balanced in the future for competitive top level.
yes everything broken with the civ meanwhile no one use it, bad winrate, bad score
Btw you can’t get 4 or 5 fishing boats cuz the dock is 1 min for buid now, so you need a wood treasure for get 3 fishing boats and aging at a decent time, otherwise its 2
Also you can’t click up at 2:20, its around 2:40 if you start farm on cattle map or insane amount of food treasure and even if its the case aging with 14 vills is not particualry broken compared to brit who aging at this same time with 19 vills lmao
How you get 8 LC, need to explain me cuz 2 from age up + 4 = 6
At " competitive lvl " you send 2 LC age 4 ? lmao
800 crate is good shipment yes but haud have 600w 600c shipment instead of 700, explain how its broken plz
Cav unit has multiplier against artillery cuz haud don’t have any artillery age 3 for compete against cannon, again explain how its broken plz
Crackshot is strong yes, after all its a warchief and inca one has it too but no one complain about this one, before you say " but 10 % more hp arounf the warchief ", every warchief has an aura right
Haud get a travois, yes its a civ bonus, if you remove that which bonus haud has lol
Haud FI balance concern ? since when ? i mean almost every civ can FI with basically same unit and at the same time, except you get LC which don’t deal many damage against infantry so how its broken ? if haud can’t FI how they deal against turtle play or if you nerf LC how they deal against cannon age 4 such as Heavy cannon or just fort building turtle etc ? Rams ?
Why LC is too cheap ? the unit is only age 4 and haud eco is mediocre compared to other civ, they don’t have factory and if you need to spend all your shipment on crate then that mean you don’t get inf combat or other shipment so your unit at the end are mediocre
Imagine LC nerf for treaty lol
I can say then Abus is too cheap for their stat in that case too lol
Forest prowlers strong yes but compare their basic stat with classic skirm, they have 1 more atk for 10 less HP
How is that broken explain plz ?
Before you say but with hp aura from the WC blabla, again all native civ has an aura right, and so what the aura should be an handicap instead to civ bonus ?
And plz don’t say at competitive lvl blabla, PLZ
I have indicated competitive top level, might not reflect the case for causal elo, that data lacks huge amount of competitive data and is causal based respectfully, of course game should be balanced for all levels. Water booming is still possible and a very decent start option as haud, have been tested already and it doesn’t make it any bad option still. 2:20 age up is possible most of the time the way malta can achieve that. Haud can ship 4 light cannons and then ship 1800 crates which let them economy chance to mass more than 8 light cannons and a great army protection with tomahawks tanking. Nobody has claimed 800 crates or cav having bonus as broken, but they are part of the quite solid powers of haud, please do not change the words I have used. Comparing units without taking haud explorer into consideration is an invalid way in competitive top level since a competitive player will do his best to keep his explorer alive which is one of the most important feature of haud. Expecting minimum level of respect from the messages I am replying to rather than reading comments as “lmao” or putten words I haven’t said or my words getting called “bla bla”, Hopefully moderators will take that message into consideration.
Ye so its exactly what i said, its more an handicap than a bonus, why ?
In that case you reduce the lakota cav speed due to their Warchief, you reduce for azzy the XP bounty due to Azzy warchief one, you reduce nat unit with inca due to Inca one ?
Yes because ur opponent on " competitive lvl " with your word let you send crate, he not punish the FI, he not raid, he let you make everything you want
on " Competitive lvl " it doesn’t work
Huh 2:20 like Malta way, huh explain plz
Ye so Skill micro is an handicap ?
Balanced for all levels is a contradiction, if for example I am pr30 or elo 1900 (I don’t know the ratios) and I have difficulty facing an Aztec rush because I micro badly and my build is wrong it does not mean that when I lose it is the fault of the Aztecs too op it was me poorer or my strategy didn’t work and I have to try another one, put a pr36 or 2000 elo (again take these ratios as not exact) he won’t have this problem because he plays much better than me and knows and he does things that i don’t know how to do or i don’t know, if for pr15 or elo 1300 you beat a player with a simple rush of strelets a pr25 or 1600 elo you don’t beat him with a rush of strelets, the pr15 then he will complain about russia or the strelets too strong while a pr25 will complain that russia is too weak and strelets are too weak. It would never come out like this the game must be balanced by developers who play the game at a certain level or at least by a support of a group of maximum level players that you find in the game and through comparisons between them and ideas that give the community and tests will be carried out on the test balance and it will be reviewed in beta by the top players only in this way you will find a balance that revolves around the highest level of the moment in the game (provided the top players are serious and do not nerf their bad matches up).
Haud is fine, I don’t think they need a buff other than perhaps an extra eco card for late game. I’d say it’s more down to people not liking the civ. The data for them isn’t very accurate due to so few games played. I myself dislike the civ it’s quite boring to play imo and I prefer any of the other natives over haud.
13 infinite moose would be enough buff imo.
Forest prowler gets 22 range.
The creator of the Grid has said multiple times that the 1400+ grid is useless because it doesn’t have enough games to be statistically relevant. Use the 1100+ Grid if you want to make a point.
Some people here are funny,
Conclusion:
Toma + WC aura lose against general musk = Toma is strong.
Kanya + WC aura lose against hussar = Kanya is strong.
Forest prowler has different status only = they are the best skirm.
Lowest pickrate + second lowest winrate = this is useless and need to take the noober level for reference. They are strong.
Every figure and data is not accurate as their bias feeling.
Why not directly say, “I don’t like this civ” or “I don’t like how to deal with this civ”.
man you have to pay 600w 600c tech for this …, not like this is smth you get easily
True. I personally build around those big buttons. This particular one makes hauds infantry very oppressive.
I thnk that lacrosse BB should be either halved both in price and bonus (from 1200K resource to 600 and from +2 range and los to +1), or to entirelly rework it, as now it is rarely used outside treaty and i think it would be nice to make it more used, but at the same time not so overly strong as bonus…
Maybe it give a minor speed bonus to warhut units too?
Kevin is one of top level player why you are not listening him…
Halving the bonus will make it useless though.
I don’t think forums should be used to promote rank but talk about the approaches certain level players have, personally I don’t prefer to self promote and this is one of the first time I am going to release my rank, I am currently the best competitive player in Aoe3 since longer than a year, holding rank 1 both in tournaments and in game rank. Currently considered to be the best player. Have years of experience about the balance and been involved with the previous fan made patch teams in the legacy game. Have involved with more than 100s of balance changes. My opinions are based on years of experiences and you are welcome to disagree with them as soon as it’s constructive and doesn’t include personal attacks.
In fact I don’t care what people elo but just saw this sentence from you as you can see I only quote this.
I trust data due to data don’t have bias.
What I can see now is toma and kanya status are weaker than general, people say they are strong.
FP has different status only, then they are the best.
Have a pickrate and winrate table, people don’t want to admit and need to find a worse level to support nonsense opinion, which 1100 can be said mostly don’t know the correct concept.
For you are talking years ago game play, if you are not talking about DE version, I agree Haud is one of strongest.
I don’t think a sample size of 200 haud games is sufficient though, france that has thousands and still low win rate at every level makes it obvious that it needs a small buff but I don’t see that with haud, as revnak said haud is very strong at competitive level and while the game shouldn’t be balanced around that alone I expect the low win rate is just due to low sample size and low pick rate. Haud are incredibly unpopular as a civ so perhaps they need some changes to fix that alone but from my limited experience with them they feel balanced in terms of strength.
Agreed. Again, like I said, the 1400+ Grid is mostly useless and if people want to argue about balance, they’d have stronger arguments if they used the 1100+ or the 1250+ Grids.
Keep in mind Aoe3 is not a competitive based game, if we needed to draw actual top competitive balance conclusions it would be need to start from 2000-2050 ELO where we would have very little sample of games, due to the fact that there is narrow representation of competition in Aoe3, it’s not ideal always asking game to be balanced based on only a group of tens players while the game is played by another huge majority, to find a game in quick search a 2100+ elo player generally needs to wait long times while around 1.000 elo you can find games very fast. I just wanted to add that it’s fine if game gets balanced based on all approached even if it’s hard, need to think about the majority first in my opinion.