Hephthalites Tech Tree

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

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The Hephthalites also known as the white huns, can be an umbrella civ for Buddist Central Asia kingdoms, including Saka and Sogdia for example. Among all the kingdoms and peoples there before Islam, Hephthalites were the strongest military power and truly an empire. The last of its kind is the Khotan Kingdom ended in 1006 CE.

•Chopppers don’t need lumbercamp, chopping technology research in town center; (The chopping speed is slightly lower like Khmer farming speed)
•Trade carts have double hp & caravan tech free;
•Archery range units return half the gold when being killed,starting from Castle Age;
•Cavalry Achers deal 20% more damge to elephants;

Team bonus
•Scout cavalry or eagle scout has faster speed(same as light cav or eagle warrior).

Unique Tech
Jade trading: Town center now genrates gold.(Each TC equivelant one full tech gold miner)
Buddhas of Bamiyan: All military buildings can be garrisoned and unis heal faster when garrisoned.

The Hephthalites also known as the white huns, can be an umbrella civ for Buddist Central Asia kingdoms, including Saka and Sogdia for example. Among all the kingdoms and peoples there before Islam, Hephthalites were the strongest military power and truly an empire. The last of its kind is the Khotan Kingdom ended in 1006 CE.

•Chopppers don’t need lumbercamp, chopping technology research in town center; (The chopping speed is slightly lower like Khmer farming speed)
•Trade carts have double hp & caravan tech free;
•Archery range units return half the gold when being killed,starting from Castle Age;
•Cavalry Achers deal 20% more damge to elephants;

Team bonus
•Scout cavalry or eagle scout has faster speed(same as light cav or eagle warrior).

Unique Tech
Jade trading: Town center now genrates gold.(Each TC equivelant one full tech gold miner)
Buddhas of Bamiyan: All military buildings can be garrisoned and unis heal faster when garrisoned.

2

this would be insanely broken.

1 Like
4

You are right. First two lumbercamps free maybe.
Or get a free lumbercamp every age.

5

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6

New idea: when a tree within 2 tiles of a lumbercamp die, the player imediately get 10 wood.

7

I dont think its possible to code something like that.lets say you use a onager to take out trees close to the lumber camp game would not be able to identify if the tree was cut down or destroyed.

Again not sure if this could be done unlike a villager or herdable spawning,maybe lumber camps cost less or dont cost anything would be a substitute?

Even skirmishers that dont cost gold to make?

This would be very situational as many dont have elephants,maybe have this for a team bonus?

2 Likes
8

I suppose just like how folwark is programed maybe? A tree within 2 tiles of the lumber camp gets labeled as a special kind, and the first 10 wood of such tree can be “harvested” instantly by villager.

Only archers and cav archers. 0 gold returns 0 gold.

Yeah better be team bonus.

Another civ bonus idea I have is camel rider (&heavy) has trample damage.

9

We need the Tibetans as a civilisation to fill this middle Central Asia gap.

1 Like
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Yes please, no refreshing LC’s, no villagers bumping or getting stuck. I dont think moving upgrade to TC is necessary though. They can still build one LC somewhere in Feudal to start getting upgrades, just like Khmer generally build a mill in the early game and have it for farm upgrades.

This could be broken in 1v1. They might have 10 TC’s stacked in a corner after the gold has run out on the map. Feitorias only stay balanced because they are limited by population space., and cost 2.5X more stone than a TC.

11

But tc cost 275 wood and 100 stone which in late game is about 200 gold, plus the resources and time to resaerch this tech. And stone also becomes more expensive late game. Feitoria earn its own cost at a fixed time but a tc might need a super long time to earn its cost depending on the stone price(or in certain map wood price). Plus an effect can be added like Sicilian unique tech and Burgundian one, that the enemy will know when the player research Jade Trade, so he’ll pay attention to possible tc spam.

12

Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a cool idea. Just that rate might be too high. I believe 1 gold miner is about 0.5 gold/s vs a Feitoria’s 0.7 gold/s. So in theory, you could build 7 TC’s somewhere protected (they don’t take up that much space if you don’t plan to farm around them) and have much less material investment than 5 Feitoria’s, while giving the same gold generation, and not giving up 100 pop space. Sure the Feitoria gives other resources, and the stone is useful, but food and wood are easy to come by, and I think the point holds even if you consider the Feitoria’s Stone + Gold generation.

13

As I know there is too little resources about Tibetan military, most information out there is about culture, religion and diplomacy. Like what is iconic with Tibetan army, cavalry archer infantry or economy or defense buildings? It seems to me that their army is only iconic that they managed to transport logistic on the highest plateau of earth. I’m afraid they would become another Korean, unique techs and units too fantasy and one campaign can summerize their whole military achievement.
Plus I don’t know if it’s even possible to get 8 names of military leaders for Tibetan.

14

Yeah you are right. The gold rate should be lower.

15

You are highly uninformed my friend.
Some resources for you. They were a mighty empire for 200-300 years and even humbled the various Central Asian powers, Arabs and the Tang Dynasty and controlled the middle Silk Road. Also a major political power with influence which spread Buddhism across Asia. Not to mention the Tangut kingdom which came out of the breakup of the Tibetan Empire was a major regional power in western China, till the Mongols emerged on the scene.

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16

I mean it seems to me that the key factor to their military success is that they can harvest lots of food during good climate period and organize their logistic to support the army. Their influence is caused more by their religion and diplomacy effort, like indroducing buddhism to the Mongols and help Mongols create their own language. For a game like aoe2, it’s hard to find a position for Tibetan, what should the Tibetan tech tree focus on? Even considering buddhism and silk road, Tibetan isn’t more significant than local central asia people. A possible way that is convincing to me is to put ancient kingdoms in Tarim Basin and the Tanguts under Tibetan and make Tibetan an umbrella civ like the Turks or Slavs so their tech tree can focus on cavalry and trade, which is really similar to Hephthalites I perpose here.

17

The Tibetans can be an umbrella civilisation to cover Tanguts, Khotan, Ladakh, Bhutan and even the Nanzhao state which had many Buddhist Tibetan influences. They would be a heavy cavalry and infantry civ with heavy focus on religion and source of influence and special monks and cavalry. Weak navy and archers but strong siege as they were able to fight against fortified cities like those of the Chinese.

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18

Light Cav is actually slower than Scout Cav believe it or not

19

:joy:
Then make dark age scout cav speed solid 1.55 and eagle scout 1.3.

20

They would be heavy cavalry and heavy footman. from whats on wiki they were great at making armor and sucked at archery.

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21

the first reaction from most will be this is OP, but if you adjust the speed like khmer farming, and possibly reduce the starting wood (like huns) it wont necessarily be broken, especially if you keep any other eco bonuses at a minimum.

this forum would have 100% mocked someone if they proposed instant food income whenever a farm is built AND free gold from stone… yet we have a civ that not only gains both, but also has an excellent UU, and crazy good castle age UT…

this is unique but niche… elephants are mainly only seen in TGs, and even then not so often.

not sure how useful this is as a UT that no one will tech into, khmer has houses from the start of the game, so it could be a civ bonus instead

could work but tone it down immensely remember the burg nerf

what is the UU?