I think maybe you need post this article.
map rate in patch 10257
This can tell them why Chinese is so bad, but overall it’s not that bad. Mixed maps and naval battles improve win rates. These maps can help civilizations drag the game time into a strong period. Clocktown Siege and Baochuan.
Chinese has the worst land map win rate. All landmaps’winrate are in the bottom, except Black Forest.
So , what is the next? Nerf Baochuan？Nerf Grenadier? Just delete IO?
Nope , you guys keep sticking around with the meta . China was marketed as a Gunpowder civ , not a siege one , watch the age preview . And see.
You guys keep the game +40 min , but why? You just need to mass unit composition, with a bit of siege. The meta changed buddy , with this patch players will need to find how to play age of empires 4 again , and play them good. It’s not about siege anymore , it’s about units .
Yes China is a defensive civ , and their bonus to build faster than other civs proves this.
Oh oh i know. Make the chinese gather food from farms 50 % slower, because y know rice and stuff 
IO should STEAL the money not gather it ( corruption in chinese bureaucracy y know) and to sum all all the nice changes china got this patch take your pants of, bend over and take a nice steaming ■■■■ all over the civ, because thats what we are getting. Wanna nerf siege ? Fine. CT Bombard a cancer? Probably. But for the love of god you have to be blind not seeing that CT siege is the only viable tactics of china. Half the cost of dynasty, buff zhuge and maybe FL a little (useless now) and then we can start talking about siege nerfing. Buts thats my luck i uess have runned form Abbasid top china, to see it nerfed to the ground.
Quite frankly, I don’t care one bit for team games. I was saying that your assertion “people just spammed FL and it was an autowin” was wrong for experienced 1v1 players. Same goes for siege.
Once again, you missed the point entirely. I’ll ask once more: What is China’s strength now?
Jack of all trades factions worked fine in AoE II, but they don’t work nearly as well in AoE IV. Because, in AoE II, not every civ had access to every blacksmith and unit upgrade. So, you play Chinese vs French in AoE II, your knights are worse but you have access to age IV ranged upgrades and they don’t. In AoE IV, the French age IV archers will be just as good as the Chinese’, and so will their infantry (oh sorry, +30 health for the palace guard, yay!). The same goes for pretty much every single unit and playstyle, which means there’s not point in picking that faction over the one specialized in the strat you want to go for.
Want to go for a cav rush? Play French, not Chinese
Range rush? Play English, not Chinese
Want to boom or spam infantry? Play HRE, not Chinese
Tower rush? Delhi or Mongols
But hey, feel free to share videos of yourself playing as China post patch. I’d be glad for you to enlighten the rest of us who don’t see how nerfing a bottom 3 civ into the absolute worst one is the perfect balance decision three digits MMR players on this forum make it out to be.
than just go. or read discussion, all stats were given from TGs games.
If mixing in some data at least give info. But you take outdated data from prev patch.
Chu-Chu archers, Grenaldiers, fast man&arms
May be people will learn how to play, not survive until Siege.
PATCH IS NOT OUT EVEN NOW but Crybabies already here. Crybabies without siege.
Even for 1vs1 China never hit the bottom of WR.
Oh my lord. It’s not that complicated to understand: The winrate you posted (where China is near the bottom, by the way) is in the current patch, WITH the broken bombards. After the patch it can only go down, because all China got were nerfs. They don’t have some kind of hidden superweapon that will magically make them go above 50% winrate. Because, if they had, they would already be using it THIS patch, they wouldn’t spam bombards just for the fun of it.
I’m sorry, but bringing up grenadiers automatically voids your point. If your plan is to go Ming dynasty and spam them in a 1v1 setting then I sure as hell hope your opponent is 200 MMR below you, because the investment is so huge that that unit may as well not exist.
No because you don’t know how the meta will move.
With some slight buff and nerf you saw new meta coming.
You can see russian with the previous derp CA rush. That heavily stupid and broken and 95 % of russian player does it. Dev fix it and now you can see a complete civ with good winrate in lot of map with some different strategy (hello kremlin in river/ hello cav rush/ hello fast boom , etc).
So sometimes player consider that it is one way to win because pro did it like that or just because know one strategy but in reality there is a multiple way to win a game even if you play cavalry against french !
The Rus’ winrate was above 50%, not 46%, so they were objectively better than the average civ. That’s the difference. Following the patch, their winrate (>1500 MMR games) went from 52% to 50.6%. So yeah, they found other strats, but those strats were less effective. Same will go for China. They will find other strats, but their winrate (which is already below 50%) will go even lower.
Oh, and before we forget: Part of the reason why China is above Abassid and HRE in the high MMR ratings is because of water and hybrid maps.
Well, water got nerfed, so there’s a good chance their WR will plummet there as well.
As I said China strength was never siege , it is their gunpowder units . What is Chinese strength ? Building spamm , want to play team games , everybody is going to pick China , even post patch
You mean handcannoners… w8 rus got better !
Yeh but think of a player like me who plays China a fair bit I also play French Mongols Rus (a lot less since they got nerfed last patch) and English, but China is a fun Civ to play so I enjoy playing them even though they are weak until above 20mins into a game.
I don’t spam siege but use it as support for a compilation of units, but now the siege for China is weakend significantly as you can’t use the IO on clocktower… your better off playing another civ in every area/unit type.
The only advantage China has is they have some ok eco boosts which are fairly balanced with all other civs eg French get 33% trade bonus and a landmark that produces 120 gold food wood or stone every 20 seconds.
The civ needs to have some advantages over other civs otherwise whats the point in playing them? if the only reason to play them is a 20% buff to eco buildings you have a IO on, but everything else is weaker than other civs, then play HRE ffs get a 40% buff plus increased carry as well and have super strong infantry and 12 min Imperial age.
Mongols trade bonus is insane as well, Steppe is a really strong landmark, Clocktower was the ONLY good landmark China have now its pretty useless because siege in general is already weakend but now you hardly get an advantage from your only good landmark… its like having 1 siege workshop lol wtf all other landmarks are useless.
patch is not out yet 
And it is already bad for china, guess what happens next
Their bombards are weaker but are still the best in the game, they still have 12 range and imperial official can supervise a siege workshop but not the landmark, so they can still mass siege but not clocktower siege. The most important here is that it can be countered now, which wasn’t the case before.
Their hand canoneers will get higher range and chinese don’t need chemistry.
They still have one of the best eco in the game, song dynasty boom is still strong and ressources can be spent on units other than siege.
The change was mostly good because it means players won’t be forced to rush Chinese anymore. You now have the option to boom and take map if the Chinese just turtle in base. Where before Chinese would just push with clocktower bombards and win.
If the civ struggles early game and becomes D tier then its early game should be buffed. There are good suggestions for second landmarks to become slightly cheaper, also china players should be encouraged to use other units and different army compositions rather than just spam siege.
We also know many civs are going to be buffed in the upcoming patches and updates and it’s very likely china is on the list.
China boom is bad, chinese eco cant do anything against Delhi or HRE now, you try song boom, gl stoping reignitz. Sorry but statistics disagree with almost everything you said, you think pushing for bombards was an insta win? Lol
yeh you know any civ can get exactly the same effect by just building 3 siege work shops… so that’s not a real edge now is it? or is saving 900 wood in late game a winning edge?
So please explain to me how any of Chinas Landmarks are useful they are so underwhelming its not even funny.
the rest of their units are weaker across the board than all other civs. They are supposed to be a gunpowder civ all they get is a little extra range… and now maybe 1 or 2 siege units in a battle at any one time will have 50% more hp… hardly game changing compared to other civs extremely OP landmarks French, Mongol, HRE landmarks that just pump crazy amounts of resources.
Chinas edge that made them competitive was over power siege because everything else is underpowered…
Now their siege edge is gone, and siege in general is alot weaker, so you weaken their strength, and then nuke their edge vs other siege in one go lol wtaf are they going to do now? there no reason to play China anymore.
订正一下：中国皇宫卫士在三世代，作战方面比正常国家无增益的重甲步兵还弱，只有到四时代点完血量科技才比无增益重甲步兵强一点
This is a matter of toning down how well hre scales on late game. No civ can compete with hre once they get 3 relics and even worse when they get their 4tc landmark for a cheaper price than others, they countered Chinese because they can spam bombards before Chinese and other civs can even reach imp. This is an issue for all civs, not only china. Delhi atm is performing really well, and it’s a matter of either people will figure them out eventually or they will need nerfs.
Chinese bombards simply had no cost effective counter.
The devs will be monitoring the changes and its likely that the civ will get an buff to their early game eventually. All civs below delhi and mongols will probably get buffs before the spring patch, the main thing is that siege has been addressed and imperial age games won’t be so cancerous anymore
如果你觉得中国弱，你就去练技术；如果你觉得制作组不好，你就去刷编程题然后申请加入制作组；如果你觉得平衡性差，就努力用中国打到天梯第一名；如果你觉得中国没有优势，就从你开始开发中国的打法，而不是一昧的谩骂，抱怨，逃离。
横眉冷对千夫指，俯首甘为孺子牛。你所站立的地方，正是你的中国；你怎么样，中国便怎么样；你是什么，中国便是什么；你若op，中国便不up，愿中国玩家都摆脱冷气，只是向上走，不必听自暴自弃者流的话。能做事的做事，能发声的发声。
有一分热，发一分光，就像萤火一般，也可以在黑暗里发一点光，不必等候炬火。此后如果没有炬火：我们便是唯一的光。
