Bruh. Bombards shooting other enemy bombards first, in many cases, can lead to a game ending engagement. + range is a GINORMOUS advantage.
With the slower sieges, firelancers and lancers can kill other guy’s sieges too.
With slower sieges, enemy bombards won’t be able to close the distance to shoot at your bombards as fast.
So all in all, China’s ability to get an upper hand in sieges is made even better.
yes but other civs typically rely on other units like lancers and MAA so they already have alot of that type of unit which will now be easier to kill the China siege because siege HP and speed reduced making them easier to kill, plus cav got bonus damage…
So the advantage that balanced it is now gone.
If you don’t want it to use a certain playstyle ,it should be modified to use another playstyle instead of just nerfing that feature outright.
真是乐死我了。在这吐槽就不是发声？咋就别的民族OP就可以，chinese就不可以？
比起你那里胡扯的几种方法，在这发声难道不是最有效最方便的做法？
别搁那秀了。呵呵。
现在问题是每当chinese玩家发明了新打法就要被削弱一次。这可太秀了。呵呵。
relic真就不看数据的吗？
你几把谁啊？
元朝是蒙古 蒙古也是中國 你們不是這樣說？
你不爽大元跑去玩蒙古囉
整天在吵 明明是平衡問題而改弱
1、正是因为平衡问题，chinese的胜率确实偏低，继续削弱chinese，玩家才会不开心。
2、一些chinese的极端打法确实会影响体验，但是制作方应当引导而不是一棍子打死，chinese本来胜率就不高。你削弱了一部分，难道不应该补偿其他部分吗？为什么一直再削、一削再削？而且没有任何补偿，直到胜率垫底
不是不会换civ，主要是制作组这个态度就令人不满
I don’t understand why Chinese Civ is getting nerf while it already has a below average winning rates. There’s no way they will be magically have average winning rate after this patch.
Nerf to the clock tower is good… But not allowing Imperial Officer on it… makes this landmark almost next to useless.
1、正是因为平衡问题，chinese的胜率确实偏低，继续削弱chinese，玩家才会不开心。
2、一些chinese的极端打法确实会影响体验，但是制作方应当引导而不是一棍子打死，chinese本来胜率就不高。你削弱了一部分，难道不应该补偿其他部分吗？为什么一直再削、一削再削？而且没有任何补偿，直到胜率垫底
不是不会换civ，主要是制作组这个态度就令人不满
You can speak your heart out, don’t hide, be brave. Be like a man.
Of course, other civilizations do not have any bonuses and advantages. Including early aggression? bonus? Well, there are also economic bonuses
现在知道了吧，联通会变成这样子绝对跟狗罕见太多脱不了关系，无论是游戏中还是现实中
哥我这明显是在讽刺那些“游戏平衡性没问题/本来也没有绝对的平衡，是你自己水平不行/对游戏理解不够深入，如果你自己水平够强就没有平衡性问题”的说法啊…
Chinese Landmarks have always been absolute garbage compared to those of other civs. And while many people don’t like the design of the clocktower, people did always acknowledge that Chinese is getting carried by their clocktower because all the other Landmarks are weak.
Have we not constantly talked about the fact that Chinese Landmarks are too weak since stress test? Of course we have! There were tons of great suggestions for reasonable balance changes. Even suggestions to change clocktower to add a flat amount of HP to Chinese siege unit instead of a % HP modifier.
But apparently the devs decided they rather nerf the one thing which Chinese had going for them.
What is Chinese even supposed to be good at now? They can become scary if you let them boom on 2 TC + song. And then in Age IV they become really scary. But what about the rest?
Rus puts preassure on you in Age I by forcing you to build scouts. Rus, French, English, HRE, Abbasid can all put a ton of preassure on you in Age 2. Abbasid build rams, Rus, French have Knights. HRE can rush to Age 3 on 1 TC and with their added speed on prelates they can easily get 3 relics. And then follow up with Age IV thanks to it being 20% cheaper. HRE has some of, if not the best Landmarks aswell.
The Chuko Nu doesn’t cut it because its not very useful after Age 2 when everybody has access to armored units.
Nobody makes Firelancers anymore because spending 1800 res is completely unreasonable before getting to Age IV.
Lets keep in mind that Nest of Bees are still not bugfixed. And NoB are a worse Mangonel ever since stress test. Did you see any bugfixes for this unit? I didn’t. I don’t see how Chinese is any better in Age 3 than other factions aside from having a good economy on turtle maps.
So now all they have going for them is Age IV. But guess what, Their age 4 just got a massive nerf. And Rus was never far behind Chinese in Age IV strength.
Tl;DR: Just play Rus instead, its stronger overall. This is not how you do good balance design.
The clock tower siege nerf was totally justified. But I agree that now the devs need to consider giving the Chinese more options instead of having the civ relying so heavily on siege units. Making second landmarks cheaper has been suggested and it is a good starting point.
Agreed, I can still easily play defender into gunpowder-Jiang and have a huge advantage over other late game civs With Stronger, faster, longer ranged gunpowder and self repairing walls that cost no stone. Does China struggle to get there? Of course, but they have to struggle to get there. China is still extremely versatile
If the good Chinese players can’t find a suitable Early/Mid Game meta, the civ is going to be in the abyss.
How exactly is their gunpowder supposed to be stronger? Its not. It has the same stats apart from range upgrade as other Hand Cannoneers. Abbasid get a 15% HP upgrade for infantry. Chinese needs to invest 2x Imperial Age cost to get 10% more HP. Rus has stronger Hand Cannoneers which are also 60 ressources cheaper for some reason.
Yes, after investing 1800 ressources. Not reasonable to unlock this until Age 4.
Wrong. Their walls cost stone. The self repair is an upgrade which requires you to build towers first. And its not very useful unless you invest a ton of ressources into Wall HP upgrades, because siege destroys walls quickly in Age IV.
Besides, having infantry on walls is not useful unless you have longbowmen. There is not much value in having your walls hold 1-2 seconds longer. Its not going to have a big impact on your fights. Certainly not enough impact to be worth investing several upgrades and towers into.
Nope. They do not. Delhi/Rus/HRE are all terryfying lategame civs. Do they struggle to go to Age 4? Nope. HRE can get there easily. Rus aswell. Delhi gets all of their upgrades for free which means upon reaching Age 4 they can instantly build units instead of having to spend 1000 gold or more on upgrades.
The argument that a civ is strong in Age 4 and therefore needs to be weak before Age 4 doesn’t hold up at all. Delhi/HRE/Rus all get strong if you do not contest the map. Delhi and HRE just get tons of gold if you don’t contest the map. Rus will steal all your food away. These civs can all match Chinese in Age 4. Delhi can win the game so easy on hybrid maps thanks to their shooting fishing boats. Its one of the reasons fishing was nerfed (again).
Like every pro players disagrees with you every single one, go watch beastygt or grubby, china is a tash tier civ now.
Imperial academy with cheaper IO sounds like an interesting idea. I can definitely see it work.
