When pros say something is “OP” on their stream they don’t necessarily mean it needs a nerf. I’m pretty sure if you ask them they will say Mangudai and Chukonus are OP as well. Hera called Mangudai a cheat unit. Yet these units have not been nerfed.
Also since you quoted Viper, he called Boyars “insane” after they got buffed: https://youtu.be/_y8zy7kdQX8?t=2007 (and admitted he overreacted since then)
An overnerf is better than no nerf. Letting an OP unit free is far far worse, and the only reason you do not realize the adverse effects of this is because Arabia has been opened.
And yet you whine constantly about the steppe lancwr. I rest my case. You clearly don’t care about unit balance at all, despite your claims.
So good job just invalidating all your claims about unit balance Parthnan
You basically just created a scenario where I can’t possibly disprove what you are saying. You are saying I can’t pull clips / videos of him using strategies against top players to show you the potential viability of the strategy. That’s like saying disprove a theory without being able to provide evidence
I showed you Viper against a top player using catas in possibly the worst matchup for them and he won solidly in Arabia. It’s not like he was playing to 1800 player doing a supremacy rush and it wasn’t some niche map. It shows you can use units in potentially bad matchups when you have other units or strategies that cover their weakness. The reason he got catas was that without heavy cav, catas can just crush the pikemen / eagles that Capoch would produce and keep the arbs away using cheap skirms.
Frankly I think you just don’t want to be convinced. You don’t want to see evidence that disproves you
Yes but he was playing against someone who he can comfortably win against by not playing the meta.
True again. If it were Kotd3 or some other tournament’s arabia game, Viper most probably would not have gone for Catas. Its a niche situation.
He’s a fun content creator and does un-conventional strategies (mastapizzas) depending on the matchup. These strategies won’t do well against top civs in a competitive setting.
That’s because I know you’ll try to prove me wrong by citing one-off games. Good strategies are mostly based on non-castle based units unless the unique unit is too good or reasonably good and too easy to mass in most scenarios. Like Mangudais, Chu ko nus, Plumed archers, Kipchaks, Arambais . In general, units like cataphracts are very expensive, very difficult to get them in good numbers and very situational.
Because the overnerf happened 10 months ago. About time they are buffed again to shake the meta.
first of all you’ve been complaining about them since may at the very least.
and your entire premise is that every unit should see consistent use no matter what, so for you to celebrate the overnerfing of a unit is contradictory to almost every argument you have made about unit balance.
especially since you claim the unit is op, but somehow the “op unit” rarely sees use right now, and if your argument for that is going to be “that’s just due to the meta” then you need to stop complaining about unique units in general.
Mangudais are broken. The problem is the training time and you need twice the number of Arambai to be effective.
Mangudai is known as cheat unit by Hera.
However keep in mind that Mongols have pretty bad tech tree and the unit holds them back
The biggest laugh I had watching a pro play is when Hera started raging that boyars are “OP” even tho his chu ko nus were destroying them, and he even added that he shouldn’t need to add halbs to counter them ROFL
That’s actually a good thing. Earlier the better. It shows I understand the metagame and am not afraid to demand changes in the right direction
It is a change in the right direction, even if the magnitude might not be ideal.
no, because it puts the leitis right into the steppe lancer situation. thought you said you wanted units to be usable?
Still, what all of you who opposed me since May are now saying after the nerfhammer only bolsters what I have been trying to say in this thread since May. That Leitis need nerf.
it may need a nerf, but your arguments since literally may show that in that 3-4 months you’ll be whining about how rarely the leitis is seen and how it needs a buff.
which is why you SHOULDN’T BE HAPPY WITH THIS NERF.
You understand the metagame so much that you claimed that archers are not countered by skirms.
Do you know that I am not happy even with this change?
I am happy only for the fact that the devs and the balance team agreed with me on the fact that the Leitis needed a nerf all this while, even as all of you denied me any credibility.
Above a certain ELO, the players can kill skirms (I cannot)
That’s not what you claimed and you know it dude
And which ELO are you talking about there? Because Lierrey/Viper are not there yet, they still use skirms vs archers. Unless you talk about Alpha* micro or heavily uneven numbers/upgrades, skirms wreck archers.
I never said archers are not countered by skirms.
I said in equal numbers , a player woth enough micro can defeat the Skirmishers, assuming similar upgrades on both sides.
So you can show us it happening in game right?