condos were a team strategy. Now they are completely useless. Karambit and organ guns were the way to go for their civs. Not disappeared. It would be pretty sad that letis follows a similar destiny
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so we are complaining about something that you may even skip? If letis is so powerful, why shouldnât I go always letis?
Letis is not a mangudai. You go letis in some scenarios, basically vs melee units. Against half of the civs, which go archers, letis is not that greatâŠ
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SL starts as hyper-OP unit. Other thing nerfing OP unit after seing in action, other nerfing unit recently buffed.
So, what is the suggested nerf? +5g (=10%)?
Still the compensation buff is important
-5F +10G
Price almost equal to Tarkan for better overall unit.
As compenstaion buff I will give Liths Partian Tactics.
except i can make the tarkan out of a stable, making it easier to mass up, and the tarkan is an insanely good raiding unit due to its insane pierce armor (higher then a paladin).
This is a relevant nerf. 20% of the gold cost. I would first remove paladins than nerfing letis.
However, if you really want to nerf it, you should give a useful compensation buff. Like the first monastery you build has a relic inside. Or something similarâŠ
except they arenât nerfing Lithuanians because Lithuanians are too strong.
they are nerfing the Leitis because its too strong. nerfing the Paladin does nothing for the strength of the Leitis.
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Nerfing letis implies nerfing Lithuanians⊠the point is that letis is what makes Lithuanians a good civ. If Lithuanians are too good, I wouldnât kill their uniqueness.
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Starting to see things my way, I see.
I do agree. With Super Skirmishers (+10% movement speed and +2 PA from Tower Shields), Lithuanians do not actually need Paladins to counter Archers, and it is thematically better that they get lategame Hevay Cavalry from their Castle UU, than just be another Paladin civ, specially when they absolutely do not need Paladin, unlike the Franks and the Cumans do.
I am all for actually giving a minor buff to Leitis, and removing Paladin.
I also completely agree.
The Tarkan is an anti-buildings, anti-Archer unit that can be trained at the Stables, while the Leitis is just an anti-Melee unit that comes only from the Castle.
I completely understand why the Leitis should be more competitively priced than the Tarkan.
Leitis are pretty strong and actually as to be fair, you should adapt their cost to their strength.
But honestly that wonât change a lot. The biggest strength is their attack bonus by collecting relics and the possibility to train fast skirms with extra pierce armor. Alternative you can train Paladin instead of Leitis and most player chose Paladin. Why? Because castle age easier to mass and turn to imp you have already a lot of them and donât need new Ressource to mass again.
Only in some fights like against Teutons, Bulgarian or Franks Leitis would be a great advantage and game changing. But honestly Teutons and Franks still stronger than Lithuanians because of the better Eco bonus.
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What I want to say is that game variety is very important. I know that some people are fine if some UUs are never seen. But we already have a lot of knight civs.
You should keep the uniqueness. What currently carries Lithuanians is a UU very cost efficient, so a nerf can be to hit what is around letis
You want to nerf Lithuanians (I am against btw)? Fine:
- remove paladins
- nerf the relic bonus as: +1 attack for free and +1 attack every 2 relics
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I disagree. The Relic bonus should stay as is, since it is easily deniable.
In fact, I think that if Paladin is removed, it should go back to +5 with 5 Relics.
I do agree that it is a good thing to have a Cavalry civ that plays more with their UU, rather than just Knight line units.
Do you really hate Lithuanians? Another option to heavly nerf them without touching the letis:
- elite letis +1 MA
- last cavalry armor removed
- tower shield affects letis
This way FU letis is untouched, but it will be the only viable cav option.
I agree, but my priority was to propose a way to avoid to get another pala civ because of a killed letis
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And I would say this is enough for a cav civ
On the contrary, I think they are a great civ, whose only handicap is having Paladin, which makes sure their other options have to remain tame, because Paladin is just overly-efficient.
I wish the devs reviewed them like they did the Bulgarians, in which Paladin was taken out, and both Konnik and Stirrup were buffed.
I would just take Paladin away, and give Leitis a minor buff, while resetting the Relic bonus to +5 max.
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honestly, youâre making these suggestions that imply your hate with Liths lmao
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this makes no sense, what does paladin have to do with Leitis balance?
Konniks werenât changed, Stirrups was just changed to affect knights
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Paladin is so strong, that it makes sure the rest of the civ has to remain tame.
Also, a civ with Super Skirms and a Cavalry UU that is great at Melee, does not need Paladin to counter anything.
I would happily trade away paladin for a Leitis buff.
I worded that poorly. I meant that Konniks replace Paladins as the endgame Heavy Cavalry for Bulgarians, because of the Stirrup changes.