I would like that the letis stays as it is. I like Lithuanians and I do not think they deserve any nerf. But If someone wants them to be nerfed, at least leave them unique
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Lithuanians have options for supporting a Leitis with weak pierce armor too. The cost efficiency and cheap upgrades of the Leitis allow for an easier mixing of Lithuanian Heavy Cavalry Archers, which are usable against Arbalester, even without Parthian Tactics. Though itâs probably better to open with Castle Age Cavalry Archers and then mix in Leitis for larger archer numbers and a stronger opening economy by not dropping an early Castle. Lithuanian Skirmishers are tied for best in the game too. And Hill Forts make Lithuanians one of the hardest civs to push in the game with archer civs.
Maybe you donât even go nerfed Leitis against an archer army. Maybe you have a reason to use Paladins against archers instead because the Leitis isnât broken anymore. Why would that be a bad thing? And please, donât tell me you shall act like Leitis isnât for melee units in the first place, or act like many other unique units donât have a niche role, if you respond. As for other parts of your response, Iâm pretty much saying the same thing, and youâre disagreeing with me by saying what I said but in a different way, you know.
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That doesnât make sense, then why do we have Persians, Spanish, Teutons and Magyars who are so diverse in tech tree and 2 of them even have strong eco and still have Paladins? Paladin isnât a win all unit like you want us to believe. And no having super skirms doesnât negate the need of having Paladins, its called role compression.
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Unneccessary nerfs. Nobody would pick Lithuanians and there is no point making a new third farimba cavalier civilization after Malians and Bulgarians
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Still is only 75% of base gold cost. Still is less than the knight-line for equaly strong unit. Is also the same gold cost as Camel.
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I agree. I am just trying to say that Lithuanians do not need nerfs. If someone wants to nerf them, letis should not be hit
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And cav archers as compensation buff? If so I would like to see the relic bonus extended to them and/or scouts.
No and no.
Relic bonus was extended to Scouts. It was the first thing wat was changed.
So the proposal for a compensation buff is just making CA viable? Is it enough?
FU CA fit Civ prefectly from historical and gameplay point of view. Lithuanians are designed as civ with fast army, CA will be good addition. Also will make them less one-dimentional.
But you can be right. Dont give them Parthian Tactics, just let affect CA by Relic Bonus. But I think simply giving them new tech will be easier to implement.
Will it be enough? without testing, who knows?
Spanish, Persians and Teutons have poor Archery Ranges, and therefore should maintain their Paladins.
Teutons are too slow without Paladin, Persians UU is too expensive for 1v1, and Spanish really need the Conq + Paladin combo.
I do agree that Magyars should lose Paladin, as they have great Cav Archers, great M@A Rush, Discounted FU Hussars and a Trash UU, coupled with free Melee attack upgrades.
It mostly is, though.
Relic bonus increasing CA attack? That would be broken, no PT doesnât even matter then
No, and I wonât debate this again
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As a big Lithuanian player I think Leitis are in a controversial state but definitely not what Iâd call OP. Itâs more like they could be designed a bit better To get them in the state where they are âOPâ you need:
- 4+ castles
- 3+ relics
- enemy is not Goths or a camel civ.
Then once in this situation they are too strong I agree, but the problem is that these conditions are rarely met in practice. Iâm mostly a TG Lith player and still make knights/palas 80% of the time. I assume in 1v1 they are made even less. Following your argument I would say cataphracts and War elephants are also OP. The problem is that they are too strong at their peak and too weak in normal games. Even if you manage to drop a castle in castle Age, Leitis get shredded by archers, camels, monks and are clearly subpar compared to good UUs (conqs/arambais), thereâs no reason to make them over knights unless you know the opponent will make knights themselves.
In the 1v1 you linked it is a Lith mirror, so both players will go for knights, and leitis are good against that, so thatâs one of the rare use cases where itâs good to go for Leitis. But you couldnât do that against top tier civs like Mayans or Mongols.
The â1v1 vs every unique unitâ is a ridiculous argument. War eles are by far more cost efficient and pop efficient than Leitis according to this video. Are you going to make a topic about them as well ?
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In fact, War Elephants, despite their massive cost, are the most cost-effective units in the game, by far. They are well worth their full price.
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OkeyâŠ
(20 characters)
We are getting close to the next patch and Lithuanians wonât be changed for a long time at least, the civ and the Leitis are currently fine as areâŠ
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Yeah, developers surely have looked at winrates and concluded, that lithuanians are in normal position.
Its extremely cost ineffective to build castles and do Leitis vs units like Arbalesters. Just trash units are fine, especially since Lithuanians trash units are quite solid.
Even now, without the nerf you propose, its better to do Paladins vs archers instead of Leitis. But currently its worth doing Leitis because theyâre not going to die easily when youâre opponent just adds a few ranged units with his main melee army.
All melee units except maybe Teutonic knights, Boyars can be killed by Paladins too. A zero p.armor cavalry unit that costs 50 gold is useless even if its available in stables. It would make no sense to waste villager time to mine stone and build multiple castles to make such a unit. They would become the new jaguar warriors from pre-HD times.
You said Lithuanians ought to lose their Dark age bonus too. My point is they donât have to because its not an Op bonus.
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What? Cata lose that badly against Leitis? It is time to put up the anti leitis armor to them considering the fortune i have to spend to get fully upgraded cataphracts.
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With Logistica and all upgrades Elite Cataphracts can even outperform Leitis in Pitched Battles. Anyway you will barely see Cataphracts and Leitis colliding each other.