That makes more sense to compensate for Indians’ lack of knight lines and more historically accurate, like Mongols got steppe lancers in their tech trees in the updates. And also Shatagni is a terrible tech as it makes HC’s terrible accuracy worse, it should be changed to buff the battle elephants and elephant archers.
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they have all sorts of bonuses to camels to make up for their lack of knight line. they have +1 PA, Imp Camel, and Bonus damage vs buildings.
and yet they have Elephant Archers to cover the “historical accuracy”, while mongols didn’t have any lancer at all. why do they need a second elephant for historical accuracy? furthermore if historical accuracy matters, they need to buff Chinese.
it doesn’t make it worse at all. the accuracy is still 65%. the further away you are, the more likely you are to miss. if your 3 tiles away you may only miss 80% of the time. if you’re 5 away you might miss 65%.
the devs are not going to change the entire design of a civ just because you don’t like the way the civ is designed. numerous civs could need to be changed if they all of a sudden decided historical accuracy should matter more then anything.
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Deja vu
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I have been here before
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just because its commonly requested doesn’t mean its correct or that his logic is correct or that his argument is correct.
but then again i’m talking about a group of people that want elephants to Indians because “its historically accurate” while ignoring all the other inaccuracies of the game…
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there was a time when you didn’t even accept that its commonly requested. 
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again just because you guys flood the boards with your tears doesn’t make it correct.
and if historical accuracy is your argument, you already have elephants to facilitate that.
whats your next argument?
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LoL I have to say nothing. So now a popularly requested thing has to be ignored just because you guys flood the boards with your tears?
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yeah. because you guys commonly whine BUT WHAT ABOUT HISTORICAL ACCURACY.
all the while ignoring the fact that this game is chalk full of historical inaccuracies, and acting like your civ was the one who got singled out on that front, when in fact many did, but how often do we hear the “GIVE INDIANS BATTLE ELEPHANTS” cry about those?
its almost like you don’t care about accuracy at all and will latch onto any excuse to get what you want, balance be screwed.
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Everyone’s got the tears, chill out.
Clearly, nobody should have battle elephants that have them right now since none of the civs that have them are African, and it’s the African elephants that always grow tusks, are bigger, and therefore should be expected to be more suitable to melee combat.
If we care that much about historical accuracy, let’s stop beating around the bush and give China a full tech tree already. If we care so much about popular requests let’s also get on board with making Missionaries carry relics and Hand Cannoneers way better.
Mobs do not have good ideas. History is unbalanced, because wars were generally won lopsidedly and not because the guy with the red banner lost an early villager to a wolf attack on the Deer. These are both bad arguments.
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oh okay, i’ll just wait for a good argument as to why you should have them then.
historical accuracy doesn’t hold water because this game isn’t historically accurate and you already have elephant archers on that front.
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the popular request hasn’t been ignored. the mods and devs know you’re interested in it.
there is this thing called the Elephant Archer, it gives you the elephant representation your civ is supposed to have.
if you want proof that the request hasn’t been ignored
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keep up the great work in breaking every new thread that pops up with the same demand again and again and again rather than trying to address the issue.
keep trolling every new forumer, that’s the best you can do.
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personally i don’t care if Indians get battle elephants. i think it would be jarring to the average player to completely change the design of the civ, and make no doubt about it your civ would be changed drastically. if you do get battle elephants i want to give you some food for thought on that front.
Khmer had a great food bonus and that got nerfed and they lost BBC in order to help balance out the Elephant. and that still wasn’t enough, the elephant just got direct nerfed itself.
what do you think would happen to Indians, a civ who has a fishing bonus and saves food on villagers if they got handed Battle Elephants?
have fun getting the Khmer treatment for the next few patches.
and furthermore. I wasn’t trolling him.i gave legitimate arguments to every complaint he had.
the average new forum goer clearly is ignoring a bunch of stuff.
lets take this guy for example.
he ignores that Indians have 2 great food eco bonuses and what just happened to Khmer.
he claims “historical accuracy” despite the fact that Indians have an Elephant unit already to cover that.
he also claims historical accuracy, but ignores the other issues on that front that this game has.
he also claims shatanagi makes HCs accuracy worse, which is flat false.
so basically he doesn’t care about balance or accuracy. he just wants elephants.
he wants to change shatanagi to give elephants some sort of bonus, and on top of that keep everything Indians have right now.
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What issue? I honestly don’t understand what the suggestion is trying to solve. It just sounds like “give them elephants because it makes sense” which I don’t think is an “issue” persay.
If I said:
GIVE MALAY FREE GILLNETS
In a thread title I made, out of the blue, and then said all of the things it would help the Malay do, it’s not highlighting any “issue” by itself, and the OP never really made any issue prevalent. Compensate for Knights? So the Imperial Camel isn’t good enough? Where is this “issue” and how does this solve it? Are they suffering in pushing power, even with a very reasonable siege tree? How does the Elephant help?
These are questions that need to be answered in a reasonable way to present the issue that this might solve. This has not been done. So I don’t see how he’s trying to “address an issue” nor is my involvement tampering with that effort.
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Battle Elephants for Indians, for what purpose?
Historical accuracy? Well, they already have the Elephant Archer for the “historical accuracy”. Also, “historical accuracy” is a fallacy argument, since if we were to balance the game according to the historical accuracy, then all meso american civs would be nerfed to the ground and chinese would be god-tier.
Not to mention, generic battle elephants without any kind of bonus toward the unit wouldn’t make it appealing.
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Agree. Actually, i think we should duscuss about the elephant archer instead.
They were buffed but i havent see much threads about how they feel after the buff.
Last sunday i pkayed indians agaisnt indians in valley. He tower rushed me and ended pu shing with forward castles cocered by elephant archers.
I dont want to think how it could have been with batle elephants…
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I think the core of the indians “problem” and what many people have complained about since this forum exists is not about the lack of historical accuracy, but rather the extremely bizarre design direction they took for this civ.
The game never cared about beign accurate, but rather makes its historical theme by giving civs a bunch of bonuses and advantages to represent remarcable aspects those civilizations had in the middle ages. Look at aztecs. If the game were more based in actual history there would be no siege, xbow, or any of 90% of the game technologies for them; but that doesn’t matter, aztecs had its military tradition based on infantry and are known for their human sacrifices so there you have: infantry and monks civ. So, along the same lines, lets see some more examples:
- French cavalry was regarded as the best of western europe, so it makes sense for theme to have its identity on cavalry.
- Vikings were seafarer and are known for their infantry (berserks mainly), so they get bonuses for ships and infantry.
- Mongols and Huns. First thing that comes to mind are cavalry archers first and then cavalry in general. And that’s their game identity. It fits history.
- Saracen: Camel and monks. Byzantine: Defensive and versartile. Portuguese and Spanish: Ships and gundpowder. Most of the civs have their focus on a more or less important aspect of the civ in regard, even if it’s taken to a meme level (goths) it still makes sense for a game.
But now look at indians. An ultra-specialized camel civ with 2 bonus for camels and a unique camel unit? Why? Yes there are camels in india and they were used in war, but not extensively by any means. No heavy cavalry line at all? The main elephant hub of asia with no battle elephants? (I know there were no BE back in FE but this is an analysis based on the present) the whole civ thematic design is flawed from its roots.
It may be the most unique civ in the game and a very fun one to play with, but these are not indians at all. The only proper indian thing I can find that makes to their identity is the villager discount to represent their population and huge economy.
And that is my oppinion on why so many people ask for BE. Maybe they use the term “historical accuracy” in the lack of a better one to express how they feel with indians. Something like historical reference or historical inspiration. I know many people (some of my friends included) play only for the gameplay experience barely knowing any of the historical context, but there is also an important part of the community that finds its love for the game in the way historical themes and gameplay are perfectly balanced. And for us, an indian civ that resembles at least in some loosely way indian warfare would make the game more enjoyable.
There are some other examples of weird historical desing, like celts being masters of siege or korean with their towers, but that’s not the topic of this thread.
Disclaimer: Though I would like it, I’m not formally asking for any change nor civ redesign or anything like that. Please @MatCauthon3 don’t jump straight to my jugular xD
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*Elephant UU.
Not Camel UU.
Edit: though I guess you’re referring to the Imperial Camel. I guess I don’t think of extra upgrades as a unique unit so much as a reskin + a larger bonus than shown on the tech tree.