African Elephants are untameable for combat, so no, it is the Asian Elephant that was used for battle in the Middle Ages.
In the Iron Ages, Northern African and Syrian Elephants were the battlefield ones.
However, both species went extinct during the reign of Rome.
The Indians theme in AoE2 is that they were a wealthy civilization, so they get a fast booming economy in the game.
Naturally, this economic efficiency makes it very dangerous for them to have Heavy Cavalry, which is why they did not have the Knight line.
To compensate, and because lacking Heavy Cavalry completely might have made them too weak in the military department, the Camel was chose to recieve a few semi-compensatory buffs, so it would act more like a Knight, still not be as good.
Goths were actually a Heavy Cavalry + Cavalry Archer civ in real life.
threads that keep popping up on the same issue:
and tons more that came after that and some deleted/merged.
So, you think they have a bad design. Alright, that’s your opinion. I disagree. I fail to see how there’s an issue here to be addressed. “I think Indians should have access to battle elephants” is not an “issue” it’s an opinion. Opinions are fine. They aren’t an “issue.” You might be annoyed with my splitting of hairs, but I’m not just going to sit by and let you posit that your opinion (and the opinions of others) not being treated as gospel as an issue. If that’s a problem, it’s a personal problem.
The number of people who share an opinion is not an indication of the quality of the opinion. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. I can both accept that many people have an opinion and also disagree with it. I am not a herd animal. Many people sharing an opinion doesn’t make the opinion not lining up with reality an issue.
what’s the point of flagging this post?
I’ll repeat myself and say that the Indians we have were designed as extreme Camel civ which is nonsense from a historical POV pre Rise of the Rajas aka introduction of Battle Elephants in a mod called Forgotten Empires which then became an expansion.
Adding Battle Elephants would need a complete rework due to the crazy food bonus Indians have.
Best would be to hope for the introduction of a new South Asian civ like Tamil and/or Bengals. Would be nice to get this underused architecture set in the spotlight.
It is of my opinion that calling someone blind isn’t good for discussion, or within the grounds of the rules (we’re supposed to treat everyone we interact with, with respect) so I flagged it as such.
There are a lot of people who believe the earth is flat. There are more of them than I have copies of myself. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t say my piece in opposition to them if I think they’re wrong. You (and those who share your opinion) aren’t arguing about the shape of a world, you’re discussing a design prospect. Regardless of that, if I have reason to disagree with your position, listing 30 people who agree with you isn’t going to change my decision to oppose it.
It is more like they were designed as an extreme Eco civ, and because of it, they could not have Knights, so they buffed the Camels instead as quasi-compensation.
Indians being an economic powerhouse is very true to History, and it is the trait the subcontinent was most known for, outside of itself.
No idea what the ideas were exactly to be honest but India as a whole was definitely “Forgotten”. They definitely should revisit India though.
The place? Yes.
The civ? No, I think it is fine, and actually like it a lot.
ofc the Indians need Battle Eles. They’re just so sh.it against Archer civs, Goths, meso civs, siege ram+ halb civs.
They’re only good vs certain cavalry civs.
That is an absurd proclamation. Indians have every answer you need to handle archer civs, they get FU skirms, FU hussars, Siege engineers with onagers.
Indians have some of the best Hand Cannoneers in the game, which is a nice supplement to Hussars and champions against goth/meso. Their champions are missing an armor tech but it’s far from the worst and it’s certainly capable of taking good fights against eagles and huskarls for sure.
Don’t forget Indians has one of the best economies in all of Age and that’s before Sultans. They had to get nerfed for the last map rotation, remember?
Hera: Indians are weak against Archer civs
and you will never kill Eagle/Huskarl spam with 3 minute no production.
of course giving Indians Battle Elephants could be compensated with remove Imperial Camels (the unit that completely ruin teamgames in every tournament and every ranked game) from the game.
Instead of Battle Elephants, Why not allow Elephant Archer at the Archery Range with Sultans researched, they were buffed and this could be appealing in team games.
To give India battle elephants would mean completely restructuring the civ. They would need nerfs to economy. And might become similar to some of the battle Elephant civs. It is not in a bad spot right now competitively, so drastic changes are not required.
Though to address the issue of not having a good Elephant unit for the theme of the civ. Reworking the Elephant Archer to make it more useful and give it a versatile role will be better.
I made a suggestion in another topic-
This is a selective buff, which makes it better against some units but still be countered by some other units. And doesn’t overlap with role of hand cannoneers or cav archers. I don’t think this change will make the civ op. Only the unit will be more useful…
They need BE because IMP camel needs to be nerfed or even entirely removed, but i don’t think that could happen, so giving something but reducing the strenght of a broken unit in TG is the right answer.
Saracens should be the civ with imperial camel, just saying when it comes to historical accuracy, if indians would have been added in Rise of rajas, they would be a civ with a special battle ele line, but because it was a fan made civ back at 2012, they created imp camel with 0 justification, but at that point battle ele was not even an idea for cysion and his team.
according to you.
yeah because indians winrate is so busted in team games. are they a great civ? yeah. but so are hordes of other civs. Some civs do better on arena. Some on arabia. Some are natural water civs. Indians are a great team game civ.
They also tick many boxes on representing the Indian
people.
Indians are known for their huge population- cheaper villagers.
Their use of gunpowder is present.
Their use of elephants - elephant archer
Their insane economy - sultans technology and great eco
the game has never cared about historical accuracy, but frankly, the saracens really didn’t rely all that much on camel cavalry, using them instead to transport supplies.
man if only they had made an elephant unit of some kind as the Indian Unique Unit
I still don’t understand it, imp camel is still only strong against other cav. It just turns their counter unit to a more versatile unit. In all other matchups its still worse than paladin. And so much worse.
You usually don’t win the game with imp camels, it just helps you to close a game you already won because you outplayed the opponent. It’s a game-ender mechanic. And therefore fine as it is in it’s current state.
