Tbh it doesn’t really matter. Trush has become quite rar ever since towers have less hp in feudal so you can just batter them down with vils. So giving civs good trush is totally fine atm. I mean even with the top trushing civs (within which Incas probably still remain) you don’t see people trushing anymore.
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Why are you talking about it if you think it doesn’t matter…
Sure it matters. Incas got nerfed because someone thought their rush was too strong. Korean towers got nerfed (range moved to UT) for much the same reason. You were seeing trushes all the time, now it’s not that extreme but I trush/get trushed sometimes. It’s strong for teutons, I’d say too strong even, just like it’d be too strong for incas. In 1v1.
Then consider that we’re talking tb. Imagine if franks or teutons had their farm bonuses as tb to go with their straightforward cav focus (both get pala, lack of mobility matters in tg but less than in 1v1) unlike chinese. If everyone on your team can delay collar with no cost, that’s so amazing.
To make the point that tower rushes aren’t strong anymore so even in the case of teutons you just do other strats instead.
You were only seeing trushes all the time before DE basically. The main Korean tower nerf happen’t also before that point (losing construction speed on them). The newer one was rather a compensation when they got free archer armor. Besides people didn’t play trushes anymore with them but rather late feudal towers to get forward position. Quite a different strat. And one might or not agree with Inca nerf but having vils as military when trushing was quite insane, therefore the nerf.
You still can play towers obiously but we’re not at a point where this strat is generally strong so from balance perspective I see no problem with current Teutons (in fact you are the first person I am hearing that from) or with Incas if they had an eco bonus like the discussed.
Well, yeah that’s why I suggested it as a regular civ bonus instead of tb but somehow that was op in your eyes because of trushes…
‘Farms and mill techs built and researched 100% faster and farmers +1 carry capacity’ all one team bonus
Carry capacity only helps until hand cart is researched while the 100% faster mill techs research speed fixes the complaint of farms being built 100% faster hurting build orders and lasts into the lategame
I was asking if you think that to begin with. You could’ve just said it directly instead of “making a point” in this super roundabout way!
Well I think it’s strong for teutons, was strong for incas and would be strong for incas. With a tower bonus and a nice eco bonus like that, you don’t need a vil bonus.
I’m saying it’d still be quite strong - but this thread isn’t about a solo civ bonus for incas. It’s about their team bonus. And as tb, it’d be way, way too good to even consider.
I made a post on this two weeks ago but my ideas are missing…
However, to sum it up, I also think that Andean Sling should become their new team bonus. It fits the typical power level of a team bonus very well.
Couriers should come back as the castle age tech. It should increase the movement speed of units only by 5% (instead of the 10% it used to be) which would be much more balanced.
It could either improve the movement speed of Eagles, Kamayuk and Slingers (like before) or simply all Incan units (including villagers).
I am really surprised this isn’t in the list of suggestions as it seems like the most logical to me…
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It would also fit historically speaking, considering how the Inca were famous for their road system. Seems like a neat idea.
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People would argue that Inca have the most flexible tech tree and are already the most rounded, so their team bonus is weaker as a result to balance that civ, but it’s effect is hurting their teammates more than it is them. I often rethink picking them just because their team bonus is just not on par with other in the game.
I’ve always felt that the meso civs’ team bonuses should synergize well, so Mayans have cheaper walls (wood/stone bonus), Aztecs have relic thing(gold bonus) and the incas have farms(food bonus), and the incas is the worse one in pure overall resources saved/gained, and it should be the best(considering food is the most abundant resource).
Considering historical context, the incas bonus on the farms should be the strongest also because their terraced farms might not have been faster to build but would have lasted much longer and provided more food for water and nutrient run-off savings. Not sure how this would help their allies though.
Better food prices at market(bought or sold)- this would incorporate their farming and the road system that they were known for historically.
Maybe making the original bonus x4, or x5 faster could also make it more appealing.
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Sorry I missed it mate. I’ll edit and include it in the list. My bad.
Thanks.
Now, to comment on the other suggestions.
I don’t think the Eagle warrior boni are a good idea. Eagles are certainly a difficult uni to balance but they are in a fairly balanced state right now so I would not dare to touch them.
I also don’t think the Devs would allow anything related to tower rushing such as the build time or villager LOS as it’s pretty clear by now they don’t want tower rushing to be a common strategy…
Sheep visibility sounds really cool but I think this might be too powerful especially at the low ELO.
Reduction of the cost of unique technologies sounds like a nice bonus to me. You could always change the percentage to keep this one balanced. However, I don’t see much historical background with this one …
Why not make the slinger available to teammates as the TB?
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The Incan bonus isn’t as bad as it sounds.
It’s equivalent to about 2.5 free food for evey farm build, which is especially in team games very useful, as they tend to be much longer than 1v1 and thus much more farms are placed.
It’s not uncommon that the incan team gets more than 1 k “free food” from the incan bonus over the course of the game.
It’s also worth mentioning that you get the bonus basically direct every time you build a farm. Whilst for the chinese bonus you have to actually harvest the whole farm to get something out of it, the incan bonus gives an immediate payback.
This also means that you will have to place less farms for a balanced eco - this reduces the risk for a classical overboom effect when you have at some point placed too many farms but ot enough military or need to delete vills for military space later on.
In conclusion the incan bonus is actually not a bad team bonus - it’s actually above average as it helps any team member with any playstile.
There is absolutely no point in replacing it, only because it sounds weak. Because it isn’t.
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I like the idea, if it’s too strong the bonus can be reduced (like only 50% of what it should normally add).
Otherwise, what about keeping the current farm bonus, but with like +5% food collection rate ?
Thats really weak though.
THe bonus is a 0.5% increase on farming so honestly I would rather have a bonus that pays off earlier like the persian bonus vs archers
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It’s 5% percent of the Chinese bonus, what a joke.
Okay, let’s compare it with the chinese bonus.
Feudal with bow saw but without horsecollar:
Work Time saved per farm = 45 F * (60 W / (175 + 45) F) * 60 s / (26 W) <=> 28 s
Incas: 7 s
=> Equivalent to 1 / 4 of the chinese bonus.
Difference: Chinese get it after the standard farm would expire, incas get it immediately. And that’s the big difference: while the chinese player has to wait at least 9 minutes before getting anything and get’s the full payback after about 11 1/2 minutes. The Incan Player get’s it practically the moment he places the farm.
And the incan bonus only get’s better in comparison:
With Horsecollar: 45 F * (60 W / (250 + 45) F) * 60 s / (26 W) <=> 21 s
With Heavy Plow: 45 F * (60 W / (375 + 45) F) * 60 s / (31 W) <=> 12 s
With Crop Rotation: 45 F * (60 W / (550 + 45) F) * 60 s / (35 W) <=> 8 s
Means, after crop Rotation the Chinese and Incan boni are actually basically equivalent. WIth the fine difference that the incan bonus gives an immediate payback whilst the chinese bonus still only gives something wenn you completely harvest the full farm.
It’s just maths, but even if you completely ignore the advantage of having the ressource earlier, the incan bonus is not so bad in comparison.
Thats the weakest part of the Chinese bonus though. The big part of it its the early game
The big effect is that it allows you to keep the same farms for longer saving wood and allowing you to be in less of a rush to get horsecollar for the second wave of farms. You get like 1 or 1,5 minute of extra farming until early castle with the Incas and thats a really really weak bonus.
Since the Inca bonus risks to make you finish your farms before horse collar is researched it’s kind of pointless to try and see what difference it brings early game since it’s more than cancelled by this downside.
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Well, then the incan bonus is even better, as it gives you immediate value in the early game. For the chinese bonus it takes a minimum of 15 in-game minutes for any effect (5 min farm build + 10 min harvesting). But 23 is more likely, as even with an chinese ally for the main first set of farm placement you want to wait for horsecollar anyways. And the incan bonus gives you then about 1/3 of the chinese total savings, but immediately instead with a delay of 12-13 (!) minutes.
I don’t know which opinion you have on that, but I ever prever to have 50 food at 11 minutes instead of 150 food at 23 minutes. It’s just my personal preference, but my experience is that the snowball of that early ressources exceed the more ressources in the midgame by far.
And therefore I actually think with aknowldedging that haveing ressources earlier is much more valueable than later, the incan bonus is even better than the chinese one, especially IN the early game.
Not true. You will never get 50 more food by minute 11 with the Incia bonus, and the Chinese bonus gives 75 wood by minute 14-16 while Incas get 24 more food by then.