It seems, your views are strongly constrained by a 1v1 perspective and shorter games.
Legacy wasnt !!! But when DE came out it did MANY MANY huge changes, and have continuously broken old boundaries for the better n worse. DEVs always release a half baked drastic update, and later refine it as per feedback (maybe!).
And India being one of the few civs, that haven’t received a major overhaul, since the launch.
That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t get it ever.
new upgrades/researches/units/mechanism (Double cards, etc) have improved other civs far enough that India definitely needs a cure from the 100 smaller problems that plagues it.
On a very very side note. and just put some further info depth and history geek stuff, it can be noticed:
Mansabdar system was introduced by Akbar. While Charminar was built by a Ruler of a completely different dynasty. Point being…
Mansabdar system was sorta Mughal system, and
Charminar technically wasn’t a Mughal Monument.
Only Taj Mahal and Red fort, technically qualify as a proper Mughal Monument.
Meanwhile Tower of victory is a Rajpoot Monument. Karni Mata Temple is a temple, though it kindaf classify as a Rajpoot monument too, as it was built by and inside Rajpoot kingdom.
These above 4 monuments are in relatively close proximity of ~500 kms from Delhi.
Meanwhile Charminar was was built by a less popular dynasty ~1500 kms away from the war/invasion hotspots of Rajpoot/Mughals/Persian/Sikhs/Tibetans etc.
dude, chill. I’ve listed 5 simple, non controversial changes that would dramatically improve their lategame without affecting supremacy. the civ doesnt need an overhaul and i absolutely guarantee if india had euro level train times there would be screaming and whining on the forums within 24 hours demanding nerfs to sepoy and/or gurkha
No ones asking euro level time, just cure the build times and other minor issues. Everything will come to balance automatically.
Nah, neither sepoy, nor Gurkha is a top of the line unit in their respective brackets. They needed to change Sepoy age5 upgrade to 60% just to make it a decent musk. And even then!! There are plenty units and musks that easily outdo a, triple carded age5 Sepoys and gukha and have better multipliers.
I hope it was They are not the bottom most, thats all.
But, Check hand attack of a griot, stats of a Magaidi n Regular. Also do compare the stats gap in legacy and in DE. Do consider Sepoy takes 3 cards, and the imperial age was 50% previously. then on top of that add train time
I still remember an old treaty game after release, when my mass imperial sepoys were slaughtered by imperial ulhans in equal pop. and then few days later, they patched sepoy imperial age up to 60%.
Well… there are tons of minor things that needs reconsideration or some workaround, anyways!
Indias consulate options should not be changed, they all create a nice progression for the boom.
Start by sending the card that makes things cheaper there as second card (or third if you get a TP)
go otto and get the 4 vils, its a great shipment, then task off and go to ports for cheaper age up…
hold on ports until age up for imperial, just for the 15% reduced building cost. Build paddies while it is cooling off.
Then go to french for the passive income bonus until a couple minutes before TR ends I tihnk you need 3. to task off, get brits, then send the 5 cannon and skirm shipment. Its really good and most expect gendarmes so it can make other armies off balance.
My typical start army for india looke like 10-20 tiger, 3 mahouts, 3 siege ele, 5 cannon, 15 skirms, and rest Sepoy.
Greetings my first post. I am an almost exclusively long treaty(30+ min) India player. I believe my insight should be valuable to this discussion.
India’s shortcomings of slow infantry production are a bit too easy to exploit for civs with powerful and/or fast training melee heavy infantry. Their lack of proper artillery support doesn’t help the matters. Add on top of that their anti artillery unit having very short range and of course the lack of some very key late game economic buildings are a huge downer.
The thing with India is almost all of their key upgrades both military and economic along with their late game access to key resources and units is entirely dependent on home city shipments.
I propose the following changes to be made to India.
An age 5 technology which allows the xp generated by animals to be increased ideally doubled. Its cost should be high.
Another age 5 technology which reduces the time taken for the arrival of home city shipments by 10%. It’s cost should be high as well.
Also since India is so reliant on decks and it’s units are practically unusable(for the late game) without them either the size of it’s deck needs to be increased or the 2 camel cards should be made into researchable technologies instead.
4.Since the civilization India is based on had access to some very powerful but cumbersome/unwieldly cannons(apparently they needed two elephants to push and two elephants to pull them into battle). I propose the creation of a proper artillery unit for India called Heavy Bombard canon which will be only trainable at the Chaminar gate. These should be very expensive in both resources and population wise. Ideally 10 so they cannot be spammed. These should naturally be powerful but also slow and the loss of even one should really set an India player back.
I think Mahout’s 0.67 attack modifier towards heavy infantry should be changed to 0.75.
Also can elephants have right of way please. Them politely stopping in their tracks for a single villager is hilarious but frustrating.
I’ve done new designs before to make the 3 Asian civs avoid the stereotypes associated with wonders, monk warrior heroes and so on. Although those are not aimed at buffing the Indians, I think some their ideas coincide with part of the arguments of this thread. May I share them here? Perhaps they can spark some new ideas.
My Indian redesigns:
My new Indian cards:
In my designs for new Indian Age Mechanic, the option Merchants’ Guild would replace the wonder Karni Mata, makes Sacred Fields have the passive ability to increase gather rate of nearby friendly Villagers in a radius of 20 by 5%, unable to stack.
That allows the aura covering a big range if Sacred Fields don’t be constructed too close. Moreover, there are 4 Sacred Fields available.
Add Mysorean Rockets as the new grenade trooper and heavy infantry units with iron-cased rockets, trainable at Castle in the Commerce Age.
On the other hand, Flail Elephants are removed from Castle and become the native warriors of a new religious semi-civ, Theravada Buddhist Temple.
I add a new card called European Artillery Foundry in the Industrial Age for the Indians. Ships 2 Mortars. Mortar can be trained at Castle.
Besides, there is a new option of export gathering efficiency at Consulate in my version: +80% but -25% for other resources. Also, there are 2 cards Kolkata Merchant Guild and Mechanized Tea Harvesting for improve export income for the Indians.
I make it become a card in the Fortress Age so it may keep balance I guess.
I also replace Royal Green Jackets with Princely states’ Army, making it more Mughal instead of British. The card Princely states’ Army would cost 1500 coin, ship 2 Sepoys and 1 Sowar for each shipment sent thus far in a game, up to 30 Sepoys and 15 Sowar.
I do many change to make the Indians more Mughal, including introducing horsemen and replacing the European ships.
I honestly do not like the original design of Mansabdar. It should be hero to reflect its status of landlord and warlord, instead of an advanced regular unit.
In my version, the Zamindar is the Indian hero. Once Zamindar is appointed to Mansabdar, it can have the same passive ability to increase the HP and attack of ALL the nearby friendly army. It is a hero so does not use population, coming from the shipment drop point after ransoming it.
I suggested this at following too.
Add the Dutch into the Indian consulate, but Indians still choose up to only four allies.
Using ports is a waste of export, you dont need that reduction having mughal architecture and france crates can do the job while give you +5%.
Indian consulate is the worst for lategame, they dont need portuguese one and ottoman militia could be changed (this way they would be less OP in supremacy).
Totally agree, a match vs dutch, china or similar is automatically lost. I dont know where the ppl see them as OP.
I would remove it at imperial age (as spanish lancers have) if they dont get canons. This way eles would work like ones.
About mansabdars, someone said that they could be like Atlanteans units from AoM with a train time, totally agree. Is annoying to not can use them cause they are death before reaching the battlefiel or take centuries to go there.
As with everything in this game the matchup of civs goes a long way to how you percieve the strengths of an opposing civ. Some civs will have an advantage over india and win more often with players of equal ability.
That said, slow unit production times isn’t that much of a detriment. If that’s the case you just build an extra production building or two to get to where you want.
its a snowball ! and have a deeper cause ! vills cost wood, Mohout costs wood ! extra building cost wood! and no factory or shrine ! so an extra building costs vill time, 2 villager cost and potential army cost and real state