India borderline op now. Leave it alone. They don’t need anything
Glad someone said it.
??? now ??? are you assuming there has been a change ? None at all.
And its certainly far away from OP
wouldnt a pop reduction for the ele work much better then a pop increase?
Mahout are 7 pop and howdah are 6 pop with the pop reduction card only reducing it by 1.
Make both a reduction to 5 for all the ele units and you would have a much more effective army, borderline OP even
edit: Just to put some numbers on it.
A reduction of mahout pop from 7 to 5 would mean that for every 3 mahout you could make before, now you can make 4 with additional pop for a sepoy, that is a huge power spike.
Greetings my first post. I am an almost exclusively long treaty(30+ min) India player. I believe my insight should be valuable to this discussion.
India’s shortcomings of slow infantry production are a bit too easy to exploit for civs with powerful and/or fast training melee heavy infantry. Their lack of proper artillery support doesn’t help the matters. Add on top of that their anti artillery unit having very short range and of course the lack of some very key late game economic buildings are a huge downer.
The thing with India is almost all of their key upgrades both military and economic along with their late game access to key resources and units is entirely dependent on home city shipments.
I propose the following changes to be made to India.
An age 5 technology which allows the xp generated by animals to be increased ideally doubled. Its cost should be high.
Another age 5 technology which reduces the time taken for the arrival of home city shipments by 10%. It’s cost should be high as well.
Also since India is so reliant on decks and it’s units are practically unusable(for the late game) without them either the size of it’s deck needs to be increased or the 2 camel cards should be made into researchable technologies instead.
4.Since the civilization India is based on had access to some very powerful but cumbersome/unwieldly cannons(apparently they needed two elephants to push and two elephants to pull them into battle). I propose the creation of a proper artillery unit for India called Heavy Bombard canon which will be only trainable at the Chaminar gate. These should be very expensive in both resources and population wise. Ideally 10 so they cannot be spammed. These should naturally be powerful but also slow and the loss of even one should really set an India player back.
- I think Mahout’s 0.67 attack modifier towards heavy infantry should be changed to 0.75.
Also can elephants have right of way please. Them politely stopping in their tracks for a single villager is hilarious but frustrating.
I’ve done new designs before to make the 3 Asian civs avoid the stereotypes associated with wonders, monk warrior heroes and so on. Although those are not aimed at buffing the Indians, I think some their ideas coincide with part of the arguments of this thread. May I share them here? Perhaps they can spark some new ideas.
My Indian redesigns:
My new Indian cards:
In my designs for new Indian Age Mechanic, the option Merchants’ Guild would replace the wonder Karni Mata, makes Sacred Fields have the passive ability to increase gather rate of nearby friendly Villagers in a radius of 20 by 5%, unable to stack.
That allows the aura covering a big range if Sacred Fields don’t be constructed too close. Moreover, there are 4 Sacred Fields available.
Add Mysorean Rockets as the new grenade trooper and heavy infantry units with iron-cased rockets, trainable at Castle in the Commerce Age.
On the other hand, Flail Elephants are removed from Castle and become the native warriors of a new religious semi-civ, Theravada Buddhist Temple.
I add a new card called European Artillery Foundry in the Industrial Age for the Indians. Ships 2 Mortars. Mortar can be trained at Castle.
Besides, there is a new option of export gathering efficiency at Consulate in my version: +80% but -25% for other resources. Also, there are 2 cards Kolkata Merchant Guild and Mechanized Tea Harvesting for improve export income for the Indians.
I make it become a card in the Fortress Age so it may keep balance I guess.
I also replace Royal Green Jackets with Princely states’ Army, making it more Mughal instead of British. The card Princely states’ Army would cost 1500 coin, ship 2 Sepoys and 1 Sowar for each shipment sent thus far in a game, up to 30 Sepoys and 15 Sowar.
I do many change to make the Indians more Mughal, including introducing horsemen and replacing the European ships.
I honestly do not like the original design of Mansabdar. It should be hero to reflect its status of landlord and warlord, instead of an advanced regular unit.
In my version, the Zamindar is the Indian hero. Once Zamindar is appointed to Mansabdar, it can have the same passive ability to increase the HP and attack of ALL the nearby friendly army. It is a hero so does not use population, coming from the shipment drop point after ransoming it.
I suggested this at following too.
Add the Dutch into the Indian consulate, but Indians still choose up to only four allies.
Using ports is a waste of export, you dont need that reduction having mughal architecture and france crates can do the job while give you +5%.
Indian consulate is the worst for lategame, they dont need portuguese one and ottoman militia could be changed (this way they would be less OP in supremacy).
Totally agree, a match vs dutch, china or similar is automatically lost. I dont know where the ppl see them as OP.
I would remove it at imperial age (as spanish lancers have) if they dont get canons. This way eles would work like ones.
About mansabdars, someone said that they could be like Atlanteans units from AoM with a train time, totally agree. Is annoying to not can use them cause they are death before reaching the battlefiel or take centuries to go there.
Just to add some flavor to the export viability discussion. Propositions at the bottom in OP.
As with everything in this game the matchup of civs goes a long way to how you percieve the strengths of an opposing civ. Some civs will have an advantage over india and win more often with players of equal ability.
That said, slow unit production times isn’t that much of a detriment. If that’s the case you just build an extra production building or two to get to where you want.
That is not a hard hurdle to jump.
its a snowball ! and have a deeper cause ! vills cost wood, Mohout costs wood ! extra building cost wood! and no factory or shrine ! so an extra building costs vill time, 2 villager cost and potential army cost and real state
Thats not a “some”, in late game.
Glad someone said it !!!
Have yoy ever played treaty with them?? Thats all I need to know
That’s some puerile logic right there. Why have the devs release balance changes at all then?
I hesitated for removing the attack modifier entirely on heavy infantry for mahouts but I suppose that could work too.
Since the devs are obviously hesitant about giving India more/better consulate options my idea was to transform India into a Home City shipment specializer with bonuses in number of cards, the shortening of the time it takes to deliver them and the increase of the number of shipments delivered in a given time.
Also I am baffled by the lack of proper artillery for India as the Empire it is based on clearly had Great Bombard style artillery. Just make it be very costly both resource and population wise ensuring that India will still not be a good artillery civilization. Maybe you could even make this a mansabdar style unit which you can only train at the charminar gate and train only a limited number at a given time.
Personally at my level I think all the Asian civs are a bit op. Japan very much so if the game goes over ten minutes. That said I’m to the point where I think the priority should be to only tinker with the broken civs or ones that have broken aspects to them.
We need a cool down from all this new content and often time cures are worse than the disease.
None of the asians are OP by far. Though Japan is certainly ONLY better ones among asians, but not OP anymore.
Japan’s economy can’t sustain it for very long (especially in treaty games in the late-game), but the units are ridiculously strong in an attempt to make up for. IMO the units are a little too strong, and need slight nerfs across the board, with the exceptions of the Naginata and the Flaming Arrow.
China’s economy can sustain it near-indefinitely, and it has units that are intended to be balanced around the concept of cheap spam/weak units, but it doesn’t quite hold up due to some of the units actually being near the top of their class. CKN and Arqubusiers tend to actually be quite strong, but then some of their units are absolutely worthless, like the Keshik and the Qiang Pikeman. Their units need to be rebalanced slightly to meet somewhere in the middle.
India just needs buffs, but not many. Improve the Karni Mata in later ages and give them the ability to produce units in batches of 10 instead of 5 and most of their problems would be solved.
Keshiks are pretty strong now, especially since you can train them without costing wood.
They still retain the 30 range armour that most goon had to discard, fully buffed they have the same DPS as port dragoons and deals more damage then Ryuters
I could see just going to france possibly working with crates, but that 15% discount is a lot, especially for age ups, you save 600 Food just to imperial. and 60 wood per mill is good too, times 10-12 of those, plus the other buildings, its a good buff.
I haven’t played much DE but on RE India is a strong matchup against dutch… if you use urumi that is, they do so well vs all dutch units.
That amount is ridicoulous at that moment of the boom in treaty, if they dont age up before is caused by the coin cost. When you reach 4000 coin you have surpassed 3600 food by a lot.
In treaty?? Urumis cant be massed while dutch have A LOT of canons and infantry. Also they have now 60 villagers (64 if age up with viceroy) and maybe an extra bank(?).
In my opinion they gived them too much, now they rarely get drained. Having that amount of population with that economy is not fair
muito jogadores ainda pensão que essa unidade ea mesma no antigo age3 !
kenshik são bons agora