So you think Indians can win without Camels? What’s your logic here?
Indians are an Archery Range civ, and Imp Camels are just there to be quasi-Paladins, but not as good.
Hey, I have never stated that give Persians Elephant Archer.
Persians has no elephant in my version. Please read it clearly.

- Make Elite War Elephant +30% faster.
- Remove Mahouts and add its cost and research time into Elite War Elephant upgrade.
- Remove the fishermen bonus from Indians.
- Indians get a new civ bonus that elephant units are trained +25% faster.
- Add Cavalier, Elite Battle Elephant and last infantry armor to Indians and remove Imperial Camel and Hussar.
- Replace Elephant Archer with War Elephant for Indians.
- Introduce Aswaran into the game, a heavy cavalry which can regenerate like Berserk.
- Introduce Immortals into the game, a tech that returns melee units’ 20% cost if they died.
- Replace War Elephant and Mahouts with Aswaran and Immortals for Persians.
- Keep Sultan since it is really important for Indians eco but maybe it can be renamed.
- Add Imperial Camel to Saracens.
- Adjust the effect of Zealotry that only Mameluke +30 HP but training camel +25% faster.

Indians are an Archery Range civ
Now This. What shall I say, I dont know what to say anymore.

This
No he is actually half correct in my opinion. The Indians Archery range has the following: Miss Arbalesters, okay. Bonus to Skirmishers? Rarely do civs have that. Heavy Cavalry archers- one of the best in late game. Hand cannoneers- one of the best.

Hey, I have never stated that give Persians Elephant Archer.
I was just stating that Elephant Archer is a very weak UU and will ruin them.
Also, as I said before, changing a civ UU can have drastic consequences.

Now This.
Hand Cannoneer is Archery Range unit though…

Persians has no elephant in my version. Please read it clearly.
Yeah, but I stated above

Hand Cannoneer is Archery Range unit though…
FU Skirmisher, FU Cav Archer, Shatagini Hand Cannoneer.
Sultans Gold UT, and Villager boom that allows easy mass Wood collection.
Seem like an Archery Range civ to me.
Do you play anything other than Spanish and Portuguese?

No he is actually half correct in my opinion. Miss Arbalesters, okay. Bonus to Skirmishers? Rarely do civs have that. Heavy Cavalry archers- one of the best in late game. Hand cannoneers- one of the best.
FU Skirmisher, FU Cav Archer, Shatagini Hand Cannoneer.
Sultans Gold UT, and Villager boom that allows easy mass Wood collection.Seem like an Archery Range civ to me.
The SPANISH get just as good HCA and better HC, HC firing 18% FASTER, and no gold blacksmith and best trade.
Now, are the Spanish an Archery Range civilization according to you and Jon Oli??

Also, as I said before, changing a civ UU can have drastic consequences.
If we determine to rework civs to improve the accuracy and keep the balance, changing UU should be regarded as one of the methods.
And maybe new UU can also be an attractive unit.

If we determine to rework civs to improve the accuracy and keep the balance, changing UU should be regarded as one of the methods.
Gonna quote @anon63664082:
Please. This is Age of Empires, not a Total War game. Historical accuracy is nice but to a certain degree it has to be sacrificed for gameplay and balance.
I almost never play Spanish or Portuguese.
I am not infatuated with my own civ in the game, nor do I demand it changes for historical accuracy.
Cohincidentally, Indians is one of my most played civs.
I still keep it under the balance, okay?
How can you be so sure that reworking must break the gameplay and the balance?

How can you be so sure that reworking must break the gameplay and the balance?
How can you be so sure that everyone will like the change?

I still keep it under the balance, okay?
No offense.
But are you a dev?
Since only the devs / pros can balance something like this.

How can you be so sure that everyone will like the change?
You may saw that I never said I am sure that everyone will like it.
Even if some people may dislike my version, I still have a right to state it and share it to others, then maybe someone will like it.
Also, not everyone like changes and not everyone like the current situation.

No offense.
But are you a dev?
Since only the devs / pros can balance something like this.
Nope. But I have discussed about tech tree balance with many players for many times, most of them are not English speaker although.
If you mean only devs / pros can judge it is balance or not, every topic about balance and update suggestion will be opposed by you.

If you mean only devs / pros can judge it is balance or not, every topic about balance and update suggestion will be opposed by you.
Balance suggestion != Changing UU

You may saw that I never said I am sure that everyone will like it.
Even if some people may dislike my version, I still have a right to state it and share it to others
As a mod, yes
As a game update, you cannot ask the devs for this

Balance suggestion != Changing UU
The suggestion can include changing UU, however.
It is the other thing that the dev will accept or not.

As a game update, you cannot ask the devs for this
Had you seen I was “asking”?

For me, I would like to do something below if I can rework the civ:
I have stated in many topics before that the dev is hard to make some of my hopes come true.
But I still can hope it, right?

But I still can hope it, right?
Not if the majority of people disagree with it.

The suggestion can include changing UU, however.
Which usually doesn’t get much love.
The Spanish lack Parthian Tactics.