January PUP Feedback 2023

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

Hey everyone,

With the release of the newest PUP we’re looking for player feedback. Please address any concerns, suggestions, dislikes and likes here.

We are also looking for feedback regarding the newest AI changes, so please be open and let us know how these changes have affected your gameplay experience.

Also, I am aware of the other posts regarding January PUP. Those posts will not be ignored. I just wanted to create a mega thread to for an easier reporting experience.

Thanks for your feedback, I look forward to reading it!

14 Likes
3

Please, revert the boar change! Let’s free to chase closest enemy

19 Likes
4

Agree, i think the boar mechanic was cool and creating a sort of interaction between players and gaia.

15 Likes
5

We have wrote so many times that game’s turkish translations unit. technolgy descriptions are missing. No change even with pub. I have to write this here. This is great patch for the first civs, I want to know will be there landmark rework for ottomans? Can you give some love to the Ottomans as Devs? Good work . Keep up devs.

3 Likes
6

My observation is about the zoom of the map, I see that the only thing that enlarges are the forests, everything else should increase proportionally but it doesn’t, each unit is a point on the map and that point does not increase, so use the zoom of the minimap not worth it

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10 Likes
7

In tournaments the boar is not allowed to disappear, find another way that the Islamic civilization does not consume the boar, but do not disappear it

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6 Likes
8

  1. Please fix the BUG of the weapon’s flashing of spearman from French and Chinese. I’ve been waiting for this for too long.

  2. The icons on the map should be zoomed together.

  3. It is better to set another level for cheating AI, rather than replace an original one.

  4. Anyway, this version can be very positive, looking forward to more enterprising updates.

7 Likes
9

  • russian milita needs to do -5 bonus damage to villagers,with each age up this bonus needs to apply according to it(so they need to do 1 damage to villagers) they are strong at raiding

  • English new man at arms and king needs a new skin

  • English white tower landmark training units and researching techs %100 faster seems uncessary buff to me why did it added

  • Wynguard raider training time needs to be improved like to a 40 sec or 60 sec

  • Mongol Khaganate Palace reset itself to previous order when it packed and unpacked for example you get nest of bees as first unit and by packing and unpacking you can get only nest of bees

  • Mongol kurultai shouldnt effect the bonus damage in my opinion(it is now giving bonus to bonus damage of the units too) this can be very op needs to be tested but improving it influence radius is great maybe it can improved 1 more?

  • French red keep atleast shouldnt give arbalest to town centers in my opinion

  • Abbasid town center discount needs to be a little lower

  • Abbasid golden age influence cant be seen when you build something,i get the idea behind that but you need to implement this differently like when you building a building or if its not connected it can be a different colour

  • Delhi war elephant ranged armor needs be lower by 1 to 4 ranged armor

  • People liked the boar attacking to closest enemy lets bring them back too

  • At replays when we change player we cant see what buildings they discovered it only show empty land

  • Turkish information text has some errors at mostly percentages it needs a fix

  • There is only text correction and sound setting adjustment to the Ottomans i wish to see them get horse archer,10 food cheaper sipahi,100 gold discount to great bombard(yes with the wood discount they will get its so hard to create them on 1v1),massive discount to grand galley and make their military school ability to have some cost(nobody uses them right now),logical health boost janissary,yes im a Ottoman fan but this changes needed

thats the all i can remember now i will write anything comes to my mind thank you too for opening such a good thread

5 Likes
10

Handcannonee

r

^ This tooltip please fix the tech tree.

2 Likes
11

With the addition of English King, I feel like the English have way too many variance when it comes to harassment. Not only will you basically have a knight with chivalry out of the gate from Abbey, which can immediately rush enemy resources with impunity and tank hits from TC, you still have longbow rush, villager rush, dark age MAA rush, etc.

I agree with reduction to palisade wall health, but I don’t know about the cost increase. This could make civs like French, and now English, that much harder to defend in the early game. I mean, as the French, forcing the enemy to spend 100 or so wood to wall off in the beginning was a win in and of itself. Now the enemy will be forced to spend more resources to prepare against rushing, which in turn slows down building of additional military buildings. From there, things can snowball in favor of French or other early cavalry civilizations.

4 Likes
12

  • English Network of Citadels upgrade tooltip is incorrect. It says 40% buff instead of 30%

  • Abbasid Composite Bow upgrade tooltip is incorrect (or misleading?). It claims a 33% reduction in reload time, but it gives a 33% buff of attack speed.

3 Likes
13

AI changes

Glad to see more AI improvements, especially this which made it trivial to idle the entire AI economy with a couple units:

  • Fixed a bug where the AI would allow its Villagers to fight back against enemy harassment that would still end up not being in its own favor.

As for the hardest AI cheating, I think most people are greatly overreacting to that. The AI in almost every RTS game cheats in some way. I will say though this is not the most elegant way to do so. For example, the AoE2 and SC2 AIs only cheat by knowing things they shouldn’t, which is much more subtle.

Also, it would be better if this cheating AI was a new difficulty level above hardest. Call it “Unfair” or something. The biggest problem with the new AI is that the jump from Hard to Hardest is now way too big.

On that note, something even better would be a general handicap system with multipliers that can be toggled for each player, including AI, in custom lobbies. Then players could just set that to 1.5, or 2, or 3X or whatever. AoE2 and 3 have implemented something like that in DE. AoE2’s for example, has a scale from 100% to 200% that buffs a number of things.

New maps

They seem ok, need to test more. I am not sure what is up with the obsession to put little corner islands on so many maps, such as continental and four “lakes” (they look more like little rivers with the corner islands).

Bug fixes

Great, lots of solid fixes.

Boar change

I think the boar change is totally unnecessary. It also makes it trivial to take boar now with very few villagers.

Walls

I think the palisade wall nerfs have been plenty and are approaching the point of going a little too far. The stone wall health nerf seems ok I think. Really the only change I thought stone walls needed is this: When you break a segment of stone wall it also destroys the ones adjacent to it, so the breach is larger.

UI

Finally the stat cards are better. Also, FINALLY we can enlarge the minimap. However, the icons on the minimap do not scale with it.

The civ specific styling on the UI is also subtle, but nice.

As for other UI issues:

  • The tech tree is still terrible. Just so, so bad. It is missing most of the relevant information like unit stats, and the layout it not great. Look at the other Age games for better examples.

  • The end game stats screen is also pretty bad. Sometimes the information is not even accurate. Also, the fact that it has a side scroll with things slightly cut off is bad.

  • Let us shrink the victory conditions in the top left. I have seen good suggestions here before of ways to do so, such as condensing them to symbols.

  • More UI customization options are always better.

Siege Updates

Good changes. Cost reductions are reasonable, although I think the Ribauldequin could even go a little further. I love the ram buffs. I am hoping to finally see rams getting used in Imperial age.

The siege tower still needs a rework. It is never used currently.

Abbasid

Great to see a rework of the HoW. Need more testing to see how the balance turns out, but it seems more interesting now for sure.

Should the traders spawned scale with age like the military units do? It would have been interesting if the two wings that don’t spawn anything did since it now seems a bit inconsistent. Like villagers for the eco wing and maybe Imam for the Culture wing. Although I doubt Abassid need any more buffs currently.

Proselytization still has issues though (besides all the non-native English speakers and apparently half the native ones being unable to pronounce it). It is only available in Imp when it is mostly useless. Maybe in castle age it could actually see some use. Although the ability itself is too clunky anyway. It goes on cooldown when units run out of range and is way more annoying to try and use than the similiar conversions monks have in AoE2. Also, for conversions in general they should convert units beyond the pop cap. As it is, their power (which is already dubious at best) drops off in Imperial when people are sitting at 200/200 pop.

Delhi

I love the Delhi changes. Curious to see how strong it ends up being.

I have always thought that elephants needed more movement speed though. Maybe they won’t with these buffs.

I am still skeptical about the Hisar. It would be nice if the Madrasa was faster than normal or could research one tech instantly or something.

English

The English changes also seem pretty great. The unique units are very cool although the footmen initially seem stronger than the rangers who have pretty low damage, and both of those options seem worse than the trebuchet or the raiders. The big nerfs to their two strong mechanics seem justified. Hopefully all the buffs aren’t too much and they now feel smoother throughout the 4 2aages and not oppressive in age 4.

EDIT:
After more testing I think that the buffs may be a bit too much. I think Wynguard raiders is probably an issue. I would either nerf the production time, or make it only spam horsemen and not knights and change the cost accordingly. Also the King may be slightly too strong in feudal age.

The Rangers I kind of doubt are worth making at all.

Weren’t English given extra starting wood at some point? Do they really need that anymore?

French

The changes seem good. The siege buffs are very interesting as is the early trade boom.

HRE

The bug fix to their charge damage seems like a big buff. The Meinwerk change is interesting, hopefully enough to compete with Aachen.

Malians

The stealth fix is great. It was very clunky before. They only got buffs though, and they were quite strong I think already. They may need nerfs to compensate. Perhaps to their fast castle Farimba play.

Mongols

Kurultai change is good, much less annoying to use.

New units for the Khaganate is fun, but I definitely have issues with how it has been implemented.

Please, please, PLEASE reconsider the completely random nature of the units produced.

If it must be “random” then make it work the same way as Tetris does for example. In Tetris each “bag” of 7 pieces will contain one of each, but the order is random.

So for the Khaganate it would randomly produce one of the 7 units, but then that unit could not be produced again until the other 6 had been produced, and so on.

When testing I was able to get the same unit 4 times before another specific one had produced once. Imagine getting 4 trebs in a row and deciding a tournament game that way, or getting unlucky and only getting palace guard or something. Not a great mechanic for a competitive game. You can still keep the fun and randomness with the method I mentioned above.

Better yet, just make it a set sequence.

Also, the Khaganate has a bug where it can be reset to the first unit it was producing as many times as you like.

Ottomans

No changes really. Only have a section here to say that I think the Grand Galley really needs changes.

Currently it is pointless to ever make the Grand Galley into a military school since it takes a slot that could be a better regular military school. A couple possible suggestions:

  • Only allow one Grand Galley. Buff it and make it a military school that does not count against the total.

  • Make the toggle on the Grand Galley cause all units trained from all military schoools to spawn in the ship. Only one Grand Galley could have this on at a time (or just only have one galley total as above).

Rus

The Kremlin change is interesting, but I don’t think defense from raids was really the Rus’s problem. It is interesting though because of the offensive potential or boar taking potential and because having more unique units is fun.

Monk buffs are good. I would like to see their warrior monks get used more, especially late game.

High armory buffs are very interesting.

Other

There has been a lot of complaints about trade lately after its buffs. I am glad to see trade viable, but we also don’t want it to become oppressive.

I really think that the half lap trade “exploit” needs to be removed. It is a silly mechanic and seems unintended. Trade can then be balanced around that.

Conclusion

Great patch overall. Lots of wild changes that should mix up the landmark choices hopefully.

Some are complaining about the lack of Chinese, Ottoman, and Malian changes. Ottomans and Malians are very new so I don’t think they necessarily needed their landmarks revamped yet, although Malians may need a bit of a nerf. If there are landmarks for either that are almost never getting used then I think they should be changed. The same with Vizier points. Chinese I think also didn’t really need a big change. They get to make all landmarks anyway, and they already had a lot of unique units. They do have one unit though, Grenadiers, that seems to never get used so something should be done there.

I mentioned a few other things beyond the scope of this patch that I think need work. In summary:

  • Handicap system
  • Tech tree
  • Post game stats
  • Ottoman Grand Galley
  • Trade exploit fix
  • Siege tower rework
  • More UI customization
15 Likes
14

I agree in many parts, but some don’t, I don’t know if it would be the best place to debate, but the part of the market you mentioned I don’t see them as a problem and it’s just a way to create your market

it’s not some kind of bug, because you can create merchants in any commercial structure and that way you can define the delivery location

so what happens is that it builds merchants near the place where they will collect the resource, let’s say, and then they will deliver to the point that the player chooses

this has to be allowed because if a route is being harmed, the player can forward it to another possible route if he has other markets

what happens is that they save the first trip by being born close, but that’s all, the other trips will be complete

I’m not sure how everyone thinks about it, but it’s just a means found to save the time of the first delivery

however, not everything is rosy, with that they leave markets more exposed in two points instead of one and thus it can be more difficult to protect both points

15

Design
I feel the Abbasid changes are cool, but the House of Wisdom still feels underwhelming as a Landmark. The design trend of granting them a bonus immediately when aging up should extend to the Economic wing and Culture wing as well (Maybe Culture grants Faith upon aging up). The Golden Age should appear on the left side of the screen like Rus’ hunting or Ottoman’s vizier points instead of on top of the HoS.

(They also still don’t have camel traders that are available in the editor. Would be perfect now? :frowning:)

War Elephant changes are interesting, but they still move ever slightly too slow. Their bonuses make them trade a lot better now, but I think a trampling based design would feel a lot better, as Delhi are already able to create units to counter say Horseman or Knights and now build better rams to siege with. Giving them something akin to a trampling niche instead would justify massing resources, as no other unit can do this.

French artillery shot feels inconsistent. The 3.5m cooldown feels too long.

Bugs
Minimap zoom does not scale up icons proportionally, making it effectively hard to see even if at 150% the size.

Click-dragging to set a formation feels different. It feels like you need to hold slightly longer. Instead of changing it or everyone, it would be better to add an option for players to choose which one they prefer.

2 Likes
17

Why??? Would an Islamic civ kill the baor NOT to disappear it?? Tournament rules can be stupid. Otherwise why would you ever want to kill the boar as Ottomans mali abba delhi??? Jist so the other civ can hardest from your free kill?

2 Likes
18

Delhi and Abbasid have more food from the berries because they do not have access to the wild boar, it is unfair that the wild boar disappears, with the intention that the rival does not take advantage of it

19

Delhi war elephants do NOT have the proper 100 siege bonus but instead share the +50 of tower elephants. War elephants charging melee tusk dmg does not update on the main UI during a charge, also the 80 melee tusk dmg is listed but not denoted in anyway to signify its a charge dmg. Apl you see is the standard 50 tusk then the 80 rusk then the siege then the spear dmg.

Next delhi war elephant still has the same fundamental issues it had before with the only 3 exceptions being a reduction in its pricy-ness and an increase in its defensive vs standard archer types and better cost effective trades vs MAA.

IMO it appears outside an ultra mass of 10-15 war elephants?!!! War elephants are still relagated to a support that excel at small engagements and in larger ones being BACK line spear defense against melee cav.

1 Like
20

Fix visuals! Clean up & fix visual bugs.

Better weapon models and more appropriate weapon models for all civilizations. Spearmen need love!!

Unique models for wynguard units, footman in particular.

6 Likes
21

elephant

I don’t think the hand cannons are supposed to have a quiver.

8 Likes