Oh damn, that sounds like a thread. What’s wrong with the Genitour? Tell me.
taking notes furiously
Dies to halb very easily, more expensive than skirms, berbers have better units to counter archers or ca
Hey let’s stop, its getting a bit hot and is going out of the mameloukes conversation. I repsect everyone, I repsect you, I repsect MAtCauthon3 we are just arguing which I really enjoy but no need to get too far away from the main topic. I’m a peaceful person I just want to be able to use the unit. It looks so cool and the art and style of the unit is dope but the unit is not viable atm. Numbers don’t lie we bearly see any mamelukes in the game let’s alone pro players and that’s a fact. It has too many weaknesses. And I will still repeat I respect all your effort on the topic, I really appreciate it. <3
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Maybe, but why would you make genitours if your opponent is spamming halbs?
But it’s more efficient that Skirms in population, and it’s a better counter to archers / CA since it can hunt them down instead of being reactive.
That doesn’t cost gold? You mean skirms? You mean that thing that costs less but does the job less good?
Damn. I wonder if the Saracens have a similar unit that uses up the plethora of the Mameluke’s opportunities that would explain such a disparity in usage?
All I see at this point is neither party agree with each other. Mameluke however, is a powerful unit. Buffing them by removing archer armor will surely break the balance and make Saracen stronger. Saracen does not really lack options besides paladin imo, and it can be very exciting to play. If Mameluke archer armor is removed. They’d better change the attack from melee to range, reduce base attack to 8 or so, and make it benefit from range upgrade, making huskarls an effective counter. I just don’t want to see someone massing a large number of Mamelukes and melt everything. Thats not fun.
I agree with you. Their real issue is there cost. You can’t get enough of them out to be a threat. They’re 85 gold. I think they should be 75 to match the knight line.
No you dont, to kill 10 mamelukes you need 15 goths crossbowman and 4 halbs with micro. and you are still paying less gold. Goth crossbowman are very good against mamelukes especially if you get halbs with them they cant do anything you out range them and have cheap front line.
What is it with claiming random xbows can beat mamelukes? Let’s be real if you’re Saracen and somehow force a Frank or Goth player to make xbows just make arbs and enjoy your free win.
Then goth will spam huskarls against my arbs and enjoy your free win. A unit that trains in a sec cost nothing.
Then I have a hard time understanding why those halbs can survive so long for crossbows to kill Mamelukes. It’s not like there is only one Mameluke involved.
Also to give you a bit of fun idea of how Mameluke is so powerful, I ran an AI fight where one is Saracen and the other is Persians. Unlimited resource post imperial start. After 40 min of back and forth, Persian player lost. At one point each elite war elephant got one shot by 10 or so Mamelukes. Anything Persian AI sending against got killed except maybe a handful of trashbows, which are killed by odd camels here amd there. Mameluke is such an insanely powerful unit, only mangudai afaik can effectively counter it. If Mameluke has no archer armor class and have some sort of archer resistance, even mangudai would not kill it fast enough.
You can try this against extreme AI at home if you like. But if you just keep saying Mameluke is weak and need buff then you do you do.
- Using the ai to balance the game is utterly stupid, I wont even waste my time doing it or looking at it and the fact is what you are saying is totally false…
At one point each elite war elephant got one shot by 10 or so Mamelukes
This is completely false you need to redo your math. Fully upgraded mamelukes Has 26 damage with bonus against war elephant. War elephants has 4 Mele armor so the total amount per shot is 22. Elite war elephants has 600 hp. So you need 28 mamelukes to 1 shot an elephants. thats 180% more than what you said.
Ok I did not go and count how many were AI was using to one shot elephant. But the fact that a bunch of Mameluke can one shot one of the most durable unit in the game tells something to me. You can argue “archers massed up does the same”, but Mameluke would not get flattened by one or two mangonel shots.
Nitpicking “10 or so” amaze me 11.
IF you did not make the proper math and missed your shot by 280% clearly means you don’t know what you are talking about. And again Fully upgraded mamelukes die to 2 seige onagers shots.
Yet, I care real world performance as much as the math, if not more. If Mameluke melt things irl, it melt things. There is nothing I can argue that can deny the reality. Sure, there are matchups that Mameluke is not good against, but that is expected.
Oh, maybe two SO can one shot Mameluke, but good luck irl to micro two SO to kill enough Mamelukes to recoup the massive 320 gold cost, which would need to kill at least 4 Mamelukes to break it even. Not something that can easily happen all the time.
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An Anti-cav camel archers with 8 attack and 3+3 Range… i would have loved that before the berbers.
I really don’t like ranged melee attacks like this one le the frankish axemen. Mamlukes could have been mucho better if they had a normal melee atack and a small stats buff
Or reduce its speed to the same as taxe (or a bit faster) so if they got a bad fight they can never run away.
Speaking of ranged melee attack Gbeto does the same and very technically kamayuck and Steppe lancer. Gbeto is very fast too. It’s just they have paper defence so a couple SO shots can flat the entire army.
The downside of a melee attack at range is the lack of ballistics. It pulls away a good bit of damage on just misses.
It’s not a big deal when you’re being chased, but when you’re doing the chasing it really adds up.
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I forgot about gbetos…
I don’t mind 1 Range attacks, it is weird since many units could or should have it, but both units feels like melee units so i do not complain.
a couple seige onagers can flatten an army of mamelukes. ohh did you ever see massed seige ballista vs massed mamelukes. Or massed scorpions vs massed mamelukes. Iv seen all of those units used at a higher rate than mamelukes. Get rid of the archer armor class or do something about the unit because the unit is never used and even hera said the unit is not worth it. the unit has so many different armor class its weak against too mich things and thus never used. If it was ever good as you seem to say pro players would pick saracens and rush to build it. And there are bad matchup in the game like italians genosee cbows annihilates mamelukes.
I dont mind gbetos they are cheap, trained super fast with good range and has only 1 trash unit good against it. It adds diversity in the game. What is good about the game is unit diversity. Every players likes a unit or a civ and hates another. For me I hate briton longbowman coupled with champions or cavaliers.