This is getting out of hand. There is no way to kill a mangudai army. Even paladins cant engage. Need nerf as soon as posible. 65 gold unite while paladin 75 gold and mameluke 85 gold. Too cheap,fast firing, fast, bonus vs sieges , no frame delay etc. Mongols has good early bonus and camels so can keep the game under control until first castle then spam mangudai and free win. I think:
Second armor upgrade should be removed so they cant use camels as a meat shiled in castle age, their scouts should get extra hp due to lack of armor.
-Mangudai cost should be 75 gold, atttack speed should be decrease %10
Cav archer attack speed bonus should be lowered to %18 just like ethiopians.
Mangudai and siege is the Mongol win condition, it’s their lategame death comp. If you let them get there in settings where they can, that’s on you. You need to deal with them earlier probably. Camels only work if they outnumber you by a fair margin.
Mangudai are fine for the civ, which does not have too much other options in the late game.
The standard combo HCA/Hussar is here weaker than that of civs with a similar late game such as Magyars, Turks, Tatars, simply due to the poor armor. The Siege isn’t bad, but without halbs you cannot build only around that.
Mongols need a win condition. And since the castle age is fairly week (except for some CA all-in), it has to be in imp, otherwise the civ would be useless post early feudal.
Edit: Best strat against Mangudai: Kill the Castles. Fast Imp Arb/Treb works reasonably well.
Every time I see this argument I feel disgusted, it just became annoying and it is like 1999 argument.
You by saying this, you just agree to have broken stuff in the game but don’t make the other side get it. It is exactly like saying: “It is fine to give a civ an imbalanced thing as long as you don’t make them reach there”.
Like Goths late game, Sicilians late game, Mongols late game, etc.
No, it’s just accepting the fact that some civs are much stronger than others in certain stages of the game. Yes, Mangudai makes Mongols quite good in post imp.
But other civs do excel in castle: Spanish with their Conqs, Celts with their siege pushes… Aztecs with the eagle spam. All could be considered broken if viewed in isolation.
Civs that are bad in that phase of the game, need to be stronger in Imp, otherwise they would be just worse overall.
Can you stop with the “Many greetings” comment at the end of every post? I know it’s in no way related to your actual post, but it’s something that’s been annoying me for a while. It’s just not needed. In terms of the actual arguments, Mongols literally have no better win condition, and the difficulty in reaching that win condition makes it easier to stop. They literally need more upgrades than almost any other unit in the game, and that’s just for Mangudai. You want to throw in hussars and siege? You’re going to need to pay a lot of extra res for that.
How do you even justify this to yourself? Why don’t most civs have this “win condition” then?
At least reduce it, but removal would be good as well, there’s just too little counter play. “Beat them before they get there” is just bad game design, when the "get there " is not that difficult to achieve
They are not bad at all, they are good and very good. If you see 10 Mangudai melt siege, knights, whatever in mele seconds is fine it is your opinion. I personally believe strongly that Mangudai need a nerf, either ROF or siege bonus.
None of them are auto win conditions all of them have hard counters, for things like Celts , they have massive draw backs , not only the strategy but the actual civ. Terrible raiding and a weak late game on anything except closed maps.
Spanish have a good early eco that helps them get to conqs? Nevermind this only really applies to very specific maps
Aztec eagle spam works on cavalry civs? It gets through walls? It has longevity? Eagle spam can kite away from everything, without taking damage?
I’m just saying. Mangudai have one goal in the game. Reach their late stage deathball, with Mangudai + Hussar + Siege running everywhere. You know what it will be from the start (most players aren’t creative enough to deviate from it, so it’s a safe assumption in most games). It is really really expensive and time consuming for them to reach that comp with the numbers at which it becomes unstoppable. They also need castles to maintain the pressure. Consequently, you need to pressure them early, and deny or hunt down Castles to cut down the potential Mangudai numbers. Without Mangudai on the field, Mongols can start to fall flat. So basically, if you let them reach the stage at which they have enough fully upgraded Mangudai in this comp, you’ve probably done something wrong.
I have played enough Mongols to experience that it isn’t that simple. To get 10 Mangudai in castle up and running, you first need a castle, then you need a stable for bloodlines, you need an archery range (for thumb ring, although not as important), a university for ballistics. Maybe you can do without one of the upgrades, but not without all of them. Further, you definitely need something else against skirms.
And all of that without taking significant damage or boing completely outboomed.
Can it work? Maybe. But it’s relatively difficult to pull off, if the opponent knows what he is doing.