The forgotten unit:
The mantlets from John’s campaign, the huron natives, and the Haudenosaunee are bad.
https://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=15,38291,30,20
https://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=15&tn=38324
These are 4 other posts made in different years, so I’m here to re-float that idea…
Siege units
Every civilization seems to have (and needs) a siege unit, all have them:
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European civs get the grenadier and the ones that don’t, unlock them with cards (Malta and Otto use their own version of grenadiers)
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USA get them from “Washington’s Legion” card while Mexico have the soldado
(Lo siguen llamando soldado en español? Parece un tanto flojo el nombre jajaj) -
The Inca get the Huaraca and the Aztecs get the similar Arrow Knight.
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The Lakota have the “Fire ceremony”, so every unit becomes a siege unit.
(Tashunke Prowler have nice siege too when in numbers) -
India has the Siege elephant, which functions as a mortar (and Culverine).
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And all civs have access to a mortar unit (China and japan have variant of mortars while natives get the captured mortar; African civs get them from the palace (Don’t forget the Sebastopol mortar))
Why are mantlets bad?
The issue is that they were bad to begin with, the stats (other than the resource cost) are literally the same from The War Chiefs DLC, they weren’t rebalanced with the rest of units by the Definitive Edition.
This hurts them because it leaves no spot in the army to fill out of necessity, every other unit of the Haudenosaunee can outmatch them in their field.
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You need ranged attack? The Aenna, Tomahawk and Forest Prowlers have higher attacks AND RANGE at lower costs.
(For some reason, the mantlet only has 10 range) -
You need melee attack? Unless you use Kanya Horsemen or Tomahawks, you are sending the wrong unit.
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Need siege? For somewhat the same costs, the Ram does WAY more siege damage, also being a surprise counter against artillery (Also, there is the light cannon, which covers artillery countering, siege and infantry damage).
The one role it has, is the tank unit of the group, as it has fewer tags to counter while having high HP + ranged armor (Except that it has the infantry tag, so even with the high HP, they get sent to Valhalla by artillery, unlike rams).
For the high costs it’s got, it’s better to just use other units (The Huron mantlet get’s slightly more forgiven for this, as it’s easier to mass and costs no population, which means it can at least be used as cannon fodder in prolongued imperial matches)
One more point to the pile is that they have a bad animation attack, so with that and the lower range, you always get the first hit in a fight…
Not just talk, here are the numbers…
I made a comparison between hurons, mantlets and tomahawks to see which unit excels at most fields, here are their stats:
Simply put, even on siege, you are better off making more tomahawks than mantlets.
On equal resources, 10 mantlets lose vs 16 tomahawks, little micro required (1 volley and then on melee) 10 of the 16 tomahawks survived, meaning that their ranged resistance was useless, as they are way too easy to close the distance to.
A rework. If we ever get a new update lol
Currently, I just use the other units the civ has to offer, same as every other player I’ve seen, but I don’t want the mantlet to fade into obscurity. To try and make it a fun and useful unit to use, this is my patch idea:
IDEAS
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Mantlets are now a SUPPORT DAMAGE SPONGE unit (Currently, that role is not used), similar to how the drummer supports in speed, the mantlet will support in HP.
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Mantlets get the DEFLECTION passive ability, which means that 25% of the damage that units receive near the mantlet, gets passed onto the mantlet (Keep in mind that the deflection only counts the armor of the unit that got hit, not the one with the ability) (Works only between other infantry units).
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Haudenosaunee mantlets cost no population and have a build limit (This is the main benifit of the Huron mantlets, so sharing it will make people add them to the army composition).
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Instead of Tomahawks, they use slings (Yes, the Haudenosaunee used slings), dealing poor siege damage (Making it a very weak yet unique unit for surprise counters), and in melee, they use their fists (As is currently).
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They get dual armor (20% siege armor) to compensate against grenadiers and artillery (it’s a massive shield after all).
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As a support unit, the only drawback should be the cost, so they no longer have a bad attack animation and turning speed, making them less awkward to micro with other units.
Numbers
New mantlet overview
Now the Haudenosaunee mantlet is a support unit with no population cost that absorbs the damage of nearby infantry, has a weak siege attack but no negative multipliers, only counters are melee attackers and strong artillery.
It would mostly be used in late game when you reach your population limit and need an extra push to defeat your opponent.
The Huron mantlet could have the same stats, having the difference of half the health for thrice the attack, so It’s still a damage sponge, but on it’s own it can still defend itself.
Extras
I found a few things online that showed how the Haudenosaunee really sieged fortresses while researching this deal.
This page talked about mantlets:
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/11612
Wow…
I was so bored that I made an entire mini-thesis on mantlets for an obscure online forum… well… tis’ what it is.
