i dont think that is true in practice since they do have 2 extra range and can micro against targets much more effectively
also a strange thing about chinacos is due to the extra range they can kite melee cav since they will attack first, it will snare the opposing units and then they can kite back and do it again
minor quibble but the stats on those units are definitely not imp, imp units should have +100% of base stats, those only have +50%
also try testing again with all techs for the civs - especially Presidial Lancers
No one is saying Dragoons arenât a counter. The issue is that they have all the benefits of other lancer type cavalry but none of the drawbacks. Other Lancers have the drawback of losing to other heavy cavalry in exchange for being much stronger against infantry, but Chinacos will just stalemate them instead of losing. Take away their x1.25 multiplier versus hand cavalry, and they would be fine.
Giving both units full updates would not be accurate, as each civ has is own updates for cav, for example, English, Ottoman, and French can make a hell of a tanky hussar easily exceeding fully upgraded chinacos.
Upgrades are also very situational and depend on player abilities, some players can advance faster than others, micro better, or boom better, and in that sense, Fortress updated chinacos will always be âstrongerâ than regular fortress hussar.
Of course we can do the testing, but as I said it would not be accurate.
Portuguese Hussars for example are obviously going to lose vs chinacos as they have no HC upgrades. Instead Fully updated French cav will destroy fully upgraded chinacos.
So doing testing vs Portuguesse will result in chinacos being âOPâ, and vs French chinacos will be just a regular Cav.
The comparison I showed is with a British Hussar and their stats indicate theyâre approximately equal in a matchup against Chinacos, not âeasily exceedingâ. A regular Hussar is going to lose handily to a fully upgraded Chinaco.
Thatâs what I was using for the stat comparison. Theyâve got more health and thatâs about it.
It looks like nearly all of the remaining Hussars are on the brink of death. I wouldnât be surprised if you got a different outcome with multiple tests.
Replace the Chinacos with Lancers and it wonât be close at all.
Why are you ordering units? This pretty much make the test completely useless⊠Congrats, you just confuted your point, leave them alone and see how they fare, this video proves nothing, with the exception that the first unit to die was an hussar, and just after that a charro even with you skewing the result by ordering units to attack move on the northern part of the line
I canât replicate his results either, Iâve had runs where 10 or even more Charros survived and this isnât even the strongest they can be, keep in mind that Mexico also has a flag aura that can boot damage quite significantly and the effect can be upgraded in imperial as well choosing the right age upâŠ
They have 67 attack with the flag aura and the imperial age up card that improve the flag
after messing around its also important to note something about testing in the editor
if you set the AI of the opposing unit to Normal i think (basically anything but extrememe) they can bug out their pathing and not even fight you sometime
so for optimal testing its best to set any opposing force to extreme and just let them fight without touching
It looks like itâs close enough that the Hussars would win if the Chinacos had bad pathing. So either he tested it once and got that result, or he deliberately cherry picked the 1/10 times that the Hussars won the fight.
Yeah, as I said this is very situational because other civs can also boost Hussars in different ways, using natives, team cards, USA flag, HC cards, etc. Thats why I was saying you cant fully test chinacos neither hussars, and depends on the civ.
I was just showing the tech applied, this forum only allows 30mb videos and I had to lower the quality.
Hope it looks better. CAV TESTING.mp4 - Google Drive
AI moves enemy units to attack but the ones player have will stay idle and lose.
It looks like this is the main issue here, both in the scenario editor and in-game matches. Results heavily rely on how you micro the units
Honestly, I test in once or twice and got Hussars won. You want to be analytic? then run the test 1000 times and tell us the result.
In the meanwhile is funny why it takes 5 of you guys to argue against me LOL. Hereâs 1v1 testing, no hands-on.
No they donât, they still attack by themself when enemy get inside a certain range, and your last video is once again hilarious as you manage to make it not count⊠You seems to willingly ignore how to make a reasonable test⊠What are you gonna do next time, test artillery with infantry already in melee range? Or maybe samurai vs skirms with samurai already within their ranks?
The only thing i can get from your videos is either you donât know how to test stuff, or you are willingly skweing them to get the result you want, and i cannot take seriously anymore videos nor takes from you
It doesnât take 5 to demonstrate you are wrong, you do already by yourself, what is funny is that someone cannot understand why people argue with them when they say that water is dry
that is not a viable conclusion to make, i made my test on extreme and assuming even micro (ie not involved) the chinacos basically always wins
the problem is not 1v1 since the area damage of the charge and the range becomes stronger in mass, so a massed situation which happens in game is different then a 1-1 fight
OK, so stop talking and show us how is done, big boy.
All this started because you guys said Chinacos are OP, I demonstrated they are easily countered by dragoons.
Then you said Chinacos are stronger than Hussars at early ages, I demonstrated that is false.
Having no more arguments you guys now say Chinacos are stronger than Hussar at full updates, I said this is situational and results depend on civ, HC updates, map natives, player ability and units micro. I gave evidence that is possible Hussars win even so you are determined to prove otherwise.
You are forgetting Mexico eco is weaker than regular Euro civs, in exchange Mex get slightly stronger units. The loss of many units is a very hard blow for Mex eco, but other civs donât get punished that much.
