because balanced isn’t equal to interesting or flavourful, and i’d like to have magyars better represented in terms of flavour for their civ bonuses. not stronger, just more interesting
thats is why i proposed to expand a little a lame civ bonus, not giving them a flat and fat eco bonus.
i use and enjoy them very much, but i still think the wolf bonus is lame and could be expanded without buffing the civ by a ton or breaking anything.
which would make magyars cooler and more unique to play with just a tiny itty bit of effort
well that would be very strong, much stronger then anything i proposed, and here i see people go crazy because i proposed very minor changes, so a buff like that i guess could start a riot by comparison
i agree on you that -15% food for all military unit would be very cool and interesting, don’t know if it would be too much tough
I’d rather say they are a lot more interesting than “Franks”. Franks is just boring for me. Win rate is a different thing which you agreed. Furthermore interesting bonus for Magyars is not necessary imo. But since I want their scout bonus and wolf bonus to be removed, I think I need to bring another new bonus as a replacement.
I have one more idea - New civ bonus is “CA can be trained in stable”.
For Magyars it definitely will. I also proposed “All military units (except scout cav) cost 15% less food” for a hypothetical new civ. But that civ must not have Paladin. Also having HC will be better for that civ.
Why should the Magyars lose their scout bonus? There is nothing wrong with it. If anything I think people didn’t discuss their TB enough in this thread. It’s kinda bad and doesn’t actually help the civ. Or its allies either for this matter. So let’s do a 100% hipster proposal that has the slimest chance to go through: just switch their TB with Britons. Everyone is pissed about how Britons+Mayans is the best combo ever in TG, and not too happy about how the Magyars’ eco can make things hard at time, so it solves both issues: Britons aren’t as mandatory in TG, and Magyars become desirable to have in TG because of their TB. It’s also somewhat fitting for the Briton TB to only affect foot archers (since they are a foot archer civ) and for the Magyars TB to affect all 3 of their fully upgraded archery range units. It also fits the civ’s theme to have its strenght in its military bonuses and tech tree, not in economy.
Because it is only me who think this overlaps with Berbers.
True.
Britons get more LOS with their range anyway. For them it will be +2/+3+/4 LOS in Feudal/Castle/Imp.
Yes it kinda overlaps with Berbers but the Magyar one takes effect in feudal age, while the Berber one doesn’t, and the Berbers don’t even use their cheaper light cav in castle age anyway. I bet if you made the Berber bonus only affect light cav in imp most people wouldn’t notice.
As of bonus LoS for Britons it would be kinda overkill but the concept of outpost longbows is funny at least it would give people less reasons to pick Britons in TG and more reasons to pick Magyars. Not going to make everyone happy instantly but at least it wouldn’t ruin anything else either.
I agree but it proves my point above. People are okay with this one for some reason but not with Turks vs Indians. (I don’t know about you though).
I’m fine with the Turks/Tatars overlap because of the differences between both, also I think people don’t like the Indian one because the way the bonus is implemented it’s kinda obvious it’s a bandaid cuz they didn’t know how else to balance the civ between 1v1 and TG anymore. But after playing with it I feel like it’s okay-ish in the overlap department because in imperial age it acts differently enough from the other 2 civs’ version. Maybe it would be less criticised if it was only Tatars/Indians or Turks/Indians but not all 3.
Yeah, for sure. I’m completely fine with Tatars though. It is an UT, affects a lot more unit as well as 1MA, not just PA.
Going little bit off topic. I had another idea for Magyars. A unique building that allow to train all horse units. Maybe Corvinian Army’s secondary effect to allow MH to train from the building.
Idk if such a building would be good. In the early game more often than not you will end up with both a stable and archery range anyway, and in the late game production buildings are affordable enough and having two sets of buildings makes it easier to mass produce armies with hotkeys.
It will help them in mid game. You don’t need to build additional stable or range if you want to switch from knight to CA. Anyway
this bonus will do the job better.
yeah since they have all military bonuses basically and no eco bonus, TB could be something helpful for eco and military like the slavs one (military building support 5 pop) for example. maybe “military buildings cost 10/15% less” or something along these lines
the discount could be wider but smaller, like 10% food on all military units (except UU), so that it does not force you into the predictable scout rush, and remains useful trough the game, since with magyars in imperial age there is very little reason to go hussar over UU, the 12 food discount does not really help that much
It makes Civ design even more bland. Magyars are already feel too generic and not really special before getting recurve bow HCA.
also, i did forget to mention that earlies magyars had infact a good eco bonus in the free hunting dogs, which was compensated only with an additonal 5% discount on scout line, so a hefty nerf overall and a proof that magyars were designed with a light hunt theme in early game to represent their nomadic nature. that was something interesting
of course that would overlap with mongols so it is not good, but there is probably room for a little change in magyar and expanding the trivial wolf bonus is the way to go imho
yeah i agree on that, it was proposed earlier and i was commenting on that. my favourite idea would be a little hunt bonus to give them something interesting, and outpost as dropoff point for hunters/ fishers sound really good to me in terms of nomadic flavour while being fairly minor
Didnt follow the whole post, but what is wrong with a civ without economic bonuses?
I always want “Mill, Lumber Camp, Mining Camp provide +5 pop space” as a TB but maybe not for Magyars.
I used to be in the boat that thought the Magyars should have an eco bonus, but over the years I realized that not every civilization needs it.
However, I am still in the boat that thinks their wild animal bonus should be changed. An idea:
Wild animals are converted instead of aggressive
This makes it one of those boni that relies on luck - by converting wolves and the like (a la herdables) the Magyars obtain just a little bit of a boon to their Drush, as any animals taken add to the raiding potential while quickly falling off in Feudal. Alternatively, animals can be used instead as extra scouts; you get free, mobile Outposts, so why not?
It’s gimmicky and only decent in the first few minutes of the game, but it’s far better than OHKO’ing wild animals, which only saves a couple seconds at the most.