Monastary need to be better in Imperial Age (Read this)

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Monastary and Monks are well made til Imperial Age where they are counter very easily, with all the improvements in this age, they are useless literally with faith and heresy.

I played often in Multiplayers and i never saw someone used Monks in Imperial Age, they are used only for heals but after “Plant healer” they are no longer needed with castles.

Ideas :

This is why it will be interesting to make Orthodoxie who is only for one civilisation available for a big part of the civilisations (not everyone) it will be the most expensive cost in monastary.

Orthodoxie will be free in the Imperial Age for the Slaves instead of it’s the only one who have this.

Cost : 1000 Foods 1300 Golds.

Pilgrimage : Cost : 400 Foods 200 Golds

Monks are 15% more faster

Why this ?

Monks are destroyed quite easily in Imperial Age, by all the units, and especially cavalry this is why make them quicker will make them just more interesting, not a waste, to make them useful instead of just a unit who have no chance when you use them later , they will be more slow than the king but they will be faster so more viable.

Spanish won’t have this features because of their unique unit.

Master Healer Cost : 400 Foods 600 Golds

Monks heal faster and give more HP

Why this ? Here now, Monks heal very slow even in group, castle heals more fast than monks, they are quite obsolte after this improvement in monastery this is why a feature like
this, will be intersting in Imperial Age for make Monks more useful.

Word of God Cost : 500 Foods 500 Golds

Monks slow down enemy units.

How it will works and why ? In Imperial Age even with an army of Monks you are screwed, because of their low HP, low speed, and the fact that they lose their main use in Imperial Age with all the counters, they got totally destroyed, this is why a feature who allow them to slow down unit when they convert will make them more useful, like enemy are listening to them, and hesitate to kill them, it make them more realistic in a way, where enemy who change their mind like, okay dude.

The unit will be more slow, but will be still able to attack, when the monk is killed automatically, this malus stop.

Missionary could take relics too, because it’s a huge disadvantages in some close games, where your opponent has all the relics.

Conclusion : Monks in Imperial Age are useless because of the counters add those features will make them better, they will be expensive, but interesting because monks will be viable and useful, by this diversity more strategy will be add with them instead of only military units in Imperial age.

2

you realize slavs are losing orthodoxy right? the tech is next to useless.

depends on your definition of destroyed by cavalry. light cav line? sure, but heavy cavalry not so much. furthermore the actual best counter to them (outside of light cav) is archers.

even castle healing is quite rare.

3

Blockquote
you realize slavs are losing orthodoxy right? the tech is next to useless.

Yes i know this is why it’s time to add this features in Imperial Age for all the civilisations not all for the balance, but a good part.

Blockquote
depends on your definition of destroyed by cavalry. light cav line? sure, but heavy cavalry not so much. furthermore the actual best counter to them (outside of light cav) is archers.

Like i said Faith + Heresy and monks are useless, you won’t have this problem, 5 monks = 500 golds, 10 Monks = 1000 a big waste in Imperial Age with those features because they will be killed in less than 10 seconds with an army.

Blockquote
even castle healing is quite rare.

Not really, it’s a strategic tactic where when you attack the enemy and you feel your unit will lose, you make them in castle, and they gain health faster, that allow you to have more time and destroy your ennemy with position battle.

A lot of people use this strategy in Multiplayer Games when they feel the enemy has strong position, after that Monks are not used in term of healing ability because of this, this is why we need in Imperial Age a feature who make them really good in healing. Because 100 golds is quite expensive for 1 unit in Imperial Age, even with a strong economy, it’s better a military unit than a monk actually in this Age.

4

so if the tech is being removed from slavs because it’s very bad, what makes you think people are going to want to buy it at…1k food and 1.3k gold?

go watch some high level games and tell me how often you see these very expensive techs.

if ten monks is enough to make him pay for faith and heresy you came outhead.

yes really. maybe you see it at whatever level you play at, but at higher skill levels, castle healing is not very common.

5

so if the tech is being removed from slavs because it’s very bad, what makes you think people are going to want to buy it at…1k food and 1.3k gold?

It’s not that this feature is very bad, it’s because it’s useless for the slave civilisation, when you use a feature it should be useful, the dev see that this feature was not used in this civilisaiton this is why they change this, but if all the civilisations have this, it will be more interesting because 3 armors in melee and range attacks are really good, and will be useful like i said in Imperial Age where they die quite easy. The price here is an example, it could be less, but knowing it’s a strong features who give them armor, it’s justify the cost.

go watch some high level games and tell me how often you see these very expensive techs.

So i invite you to watch some Vipers games in Stream and other streamer who got a lot attacked by Monks by others Pro Players, monks army are really strong in Castle Age, but like i said they are useless after those features, if the unit die when she is convert it becomes useless to use one and if it’s 50% more hard to convert, it becomes even more horrible.

yes really. maybe you see it at whatever level you play at, but at higher skill levels, castle healing is not very common.

Like i say it’s depending the situation, by what you said, you watch a lot of hostile strategy, the objectiv is to have a strong domination by attacking the enemy already, but when the enemy is too strong it becomes a position battle later, in pro games, i invite you to watch streams where the fight become the clash of titans, where each opponent are in the same position and all their units are in the caslte for prepare the next attack, because each step could be an error who could be your down fail, like a part of chess, it’s the same strategy.

6

yes, but even when they get attacked by monks, getting faith and heresy is incredibly uncommon.

yes it does happen from time to time, but it’s incredibly uncommon for healing in castles/buildings in general.

its not because its slavs the tech goes unused.

7

I have nothing to add on the actual topic. Just two minor notes:

1 This is a duplicate topic. Please don’t spam topics.

2 Can I interest either of you in a new avatar? :wink:

8 Likes
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yes, but even when they get attacked by monks, getting faith and heresy is incredibly uncommon.

Uncommon or not, the fight i saw peoples use those features proves that is used, when you play against the IA too, the fact that used prove it’s a good strategy. Uncommon is not really a critere, it’s like i said to you we won’t make any update because it’s uncommon, when there is a problem you need to correct it.

yes it does happen from time to time, but it’s incredibly uncommon for healing in castles/buildings in general.

"Incredibely uncommon’, they are quite millions of millions players who played this games, so i can said you fell on 10 peoples or 20 who have the same strategy, i fell on peoples, when my opponent feel he was weakened quite a lot by me use this tactic. The fact that it’s a possibilite and a strategy make it not uncommon because it’s actually used.

its not because its slavs the tech goes unused.

Have you the proof then ? But it’s not because this feature is bad, because i don’t know if you were against slaves ones, this feature make Monks in castle Age so strong, and it’s really good for Imperial Age with the tank cavalry in castle. They remove this feature like i said for make the civilisation better, because monks in Imperial Age are… well i already said it.

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yes, but it is very rare. and again. if you’re using 10 monks to force him to buy faith and heresy you came out well ahead.
furthermore don’t use the AI to argue balance.

yes, millions of people have played over 20 years or so, but that has no bearing. healing in castles is rare.

at what skill level are you? the fact that something works at low skill levels has no bearing. i’ve seen teuton cav archers work at low level. does that mean teuton cav archers are good?

if it makes monks in castle age very strong, why is the tech so rarely taken?

no, they are removing it (and madrasah) because they are bad techs that rarely see use. much like paper money and cuman mercenaries is being changed.

i’ve had this avatar since i joined. ain’t changing.

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1 - This topic have more argument than the others i make a flag about deleting it
2 - Why not

11

Please change your avatar, its hard to keep track who is saying what.

12

Nice you turned Monks into an MMORPG Priest fantasy.
How about some dark magic spells, you know for some extra talent-tree orgasms.

3 Likes
13

You know that it’s already an MMORPG since they can convert every units even building (YOLO intensifies), if it’s not magic i don’t know what it is, but more seriously those features are in AOE III, who is more a serious game in term of realism than AOE II, the fact that Monks could slow down units when they convert in Imperial Age will make them just more useful. If after the rest is for you MMORPG like given more speed, resistance etc… Then i’m sorry to say that you probably never touch grass.

14

The reason AOE III is dead (compared to AOE II) is its poor design. We cant afford getting inspired by it, and if so, it has to be deeply reasoned.

You ask to make Monks relevant in Imperial Age, to be more accurate, Post-Imperial Age, the investment will be so big, to gain what exactly? what degree of forcefull viablity? We’re talking about a phase in the game where monks are naturally infirior due to masses of armies, trash units, and of course hords of Hussars. And I’m not even talking about how gold efficiency is a key in this phase.

You cant accept that not all units have the same relevancy and viability at all phases of the game. Some units belong to certain phases and that’s okay.

Reminds me of posts that ask to buff Conqs and Kipchaks in Imp.

15

Maybe we should see the value of monks as socio-historical commentary. Ever since the late medieval period monastries have been in decline, falling ever further out of favor. This is why out image of a monk is an old man to begin with. There used to be plenty of young monks, but the number of people joining a monastry has been in a more or less continuous decline for centuries.

That said, I actually kind of like the concept of a medieval monastry. You get an education (beer brewing, cheese making, rope making, carpentry, something like that), a job, a place to live, food, and even a group of friends. If society is too daunting and complex for you, we’ve got everything you need right here. And it only costs you all of your worldly posessions, which includes all the money you make while here. Even today there are plenty of people for whom that might not sound like the worst deal ever. If you are the fourth son of poor medieval farmers with too little land to split between even two children and little access to other ways to make it in life…

16

AOE III is not dead, he becomes better and better, the fact that the dev make some update prove how wrong you are.

The monk need to be a better unit in Imperial Age and post imperial Age because it’s a shame if a mechanic you make in a game disapear later. Hussards are not the only units, Knights are there too like some units, i never see someone use only hussards in imperial age it depends but only an army is not logical at all, gold is essential true but the more important and it’s one of the biggest law for the players, it’s how you use it, so if you make an army of monks it should be like a risk with advantages. Have you see someone buy a PC with a high price, and accept the fact it’s obsolete and nothing will change about that. This is why update exist, and they can make this unit better.

I’m not agree because by this logic the game lose his unpredictablity, and strategy, AOE II is a game of diversity with a lot of features, if you have only one road in a game it becomes boring and boring more you play, given more roads so more strategy make it just better and better, i know that some peoples like you don’t like change and want it to be the same, but the problem with this mentality is the game is too predictable, people will move one, it’s like a book with the same story, an empty tome, because you know all the answers. Like my post where navals need to be better, because it’s too predictable.

That’s sound a good idea, but in term of balance they need to be more weak of course.

17

I see your point, but it’s a game, and everything need to be balance to give a better experience, if one unit is a type of unit who is more weak than the others and there is no justification to use it in later games, then this unit need to change.

Have you seen an erudy read the same books everydays, i don’t think so.

18

r u talking about the meme unit?

19

Just one thing, if one type of unit is weaker than the others and never use, it becomes obsolete.

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The missionary, i mean.