And well it’s more than 200 years since the campaign of Attila (434-651) or more than 250 years since that of Alaric (394-651)…
Yes, in that case the Safavids would be better …
There was not even an “Italian nation” for most of AOE3’s time period.
The influence of Italian states were reduced to insignificant since 1500s.
The risorgimento was the result of balancing of power between major European powers which constantly switched sides in those events.
Even the unified Italy did not participate as much in wars in Europe or colonial conflicts as any other European civ in the game.
Yet everyone asked for Italians.
Well there are some objections based on these reasons, not unfamiliar.
But this is a game. Cmon.
If you want to pick “3 most influential civs in each region” for civ designs, then there’s a good reason why Lakota could make it into the game but Koreans cannot.
However the game now has 11 European civs and 2 semi-European civs. And people were expecting at least two more.
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Guys, guys. I’ll let you in a little secret…
The korean unit roster in Wars of Liberty is really bad.
I’m not advocating for Korea in DE because I want to see, I don’t know, Dangpa Spearmen or Gakgung Archers or whatever, those are lame and old, nothing flashy to make the civ interesting.
I’m advocating for a Korean civ because we could have things like Horseback Rocket Launcher, Hwacha which are basically rocket platforms (yes there’s a precedent for them in China, but Joseon Korea had 500 years of refinement and improvement over them compared to the Nest of Bees you see in Age of Empires 4. Joseon was still deploying an improved version of them by the 19th century.), wagon mounted cannons, twin-sword cavalry, poison-branch spears and whatnot.
Like armored ships like the Turtle Ships weren’t really used anywhere else in the world and, again, those kept being refined and iterated upon up to the end of the 19th century. There’s actually pictures of them being used against Japan when it intervened at the end of the 19th century, lmao.
Like Musketeers but carrying the divine machine guns that are basically 3 muskets welded together with a shield on top? Just absolutely beautiful.
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I know that thing, it’s a “relative” of Chinese "Wuleishenji(五雷神機) (as a tiny culverin with five gun barrels, can be mounted on a round shield, barrels can be rotated to fire clockwise)"
Where can we find pictures of those unique fancy weapons?
That’s the most pure definition of a unique unit. 
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If anything it would be the other way around
BADASS WOW. Gotta definitely have these guys in the game. Some year or some decade later
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三眼神铳哈哈，这个要是加进去给骑兵就爽了
That’s pretty awesome looking. Is there any info regarding that particular unit? - would love to read more about it. Was it a novel/one-off type of unit or was it used in large numbers?
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Not the best source, but the weapon has a wiki page too.
They were basically special forces weapons because they were a tad bit tricky for the regular army to use. Especially since they had so many moving parts and whatnot.
They were fielded in respectably large numbers thourh.
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It’s a hand cannon. Not even an arquebus. Ming army quickly found the arquebus being far superior.
Like in the early gunpowder age you have all kinds of fancy and innovative designs (like organ gun) but non proved to be effective enough
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Its actual performance is very poor. Qi Jiguang, a famous general of the Ming Dynasty, mentioned in his military works that its actual effect is far inferior to that of a arquebus , with a short range, low damage, and heavy weight. It is only a thing similar to a fireworks launcher
But the Ming army actually equipped them extensively in the army because they were said to be easier to manufacture and could scare people after all
The Ming Dynasty army in the middle of the Ming Dynasty was actually similar to a security force for a long time, and the demand for weapons’ lethality was not very high, so weapons of this level were sufficient
A joke is that the weight of this thing is quite heavy, and using it to hit enemies may be more effective than long-range attacks
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What would be its role and its hypothetical statistics?
From the article @HoopThrower linked, it looks like they were more of a hand cannon, and some even worked as a polearm with a blade or point on the reverse end.
A unit with a primitive gun and strong melee capability is exactly the role of a musketeer.
It doesn’t seem like the unit was Korean though, it looks to be purely Ming. But it could be cool to have a Divine Machine Battalion card for China that swaps out some of China’s very primitive units with more advanced gunpowder ones. Changdao could be replaced by Three Eyed Gunners that act as a musketeer unit and Flamethrowers could be replaced by a Hongyipao cannon. Or maybe it could just add the units as a new banner army in the Castle.
I’d also like to see Chinese Arquebusiers renamed to Niǎoqiāng so that Arquebusiers could be a European unit instead.
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Three eyed gun is an very outdated firearm compared to the mean time European musket and mostly used by Ming’s heavy cavalry. This gunpowder weapon is very inaccurate and most Chinese solider use the heavy barrel of this gun to smash their enemy like a warhammer. My suggestion is to replace the unhistorical Meteor hammer (which is never used by rider) by a Three eyed gun rider. They will act as a melee cav but have a charge ability to shoot the gun. So you can still counter the artillery in a range like the old Meteor Hammer but more historically.
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Yes, in history, the Three Eyed Gun was a heavy and Worried hit ability firearm, which was almost used as a weapon by the Ming army as a warhammer, but it was indeed equipped on a large scale by the Ming army. In the game, it may be more like the old version of Finnish cavalry, with worrying range and ranged abilities, but relatively excellent melee damage
In the game, there may be a very interesting scene where cavalry with guns use them as warhammer to hit their opponents
i would say “grenadier”, maybe lategame version of a firelance type unit?
would have to be an AOE weapon.
I don’t think the existing Chinese regular units are well suited for major adjustments, so I discourage replacements, especially for such a drastic change from cavalry to infantry. But I have been encouraging to have Chinese Isolation replace the German ally at Consulate. Firstly, this reflects the long-term closed-mindedness and complacency of the Qing Dynasty and the fact that the Germans did not have such a significant influence on the Qing Dynasty, and secondly, this can be an appropriate opportunity to introduce new Chinese units.
In my previous thread, I have suggested Three-Eyed Gunner as a Consulate unit for Chinese Isolation. As a musketeer-type unit, it features a shorter range, but has other advantages, such as higher HP or melee damage.
As I said, this is too drastic a change. Especially the trainable new cannon units will drastically change the game for this civ.
I think the most decent and simple way is to refer to the “2 Mysorean Rockets” card and add some Age IV cards for Chinese.
- Red Coat Cannons: [Infinite] Ships 2 Falconets or Culverins which are renamed to “Red Coat Cannon”; costs 400 export.
- Weiyuan General Cannons: Ships 4 Hand Mortars; improves Hand Mortars much better, but also makes them start to use 2 population.
- Great General Cannons: [Twice] Ships 1 Heavy Cannon; renames Heavy Cannon to “Great General Cannon”; costs 500 food.
The operators of these renamed cannon units will have the appearance of Qing soldiers, just like the operators of Mysorean Rockets have the appearance of Indians.
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