I usually put the Aztecs in their own subregion as Mesoamerican. The rest of NA I either call Tortuamericans or just broadly reference “North of the Rio Grande”.
Ideally I would like to see three major regions for the Americans - South Americans, Mesoamericans, and Tortuamericans. I don’t think the devs will ever go that far, though.
Idk, i see both groups different enough, one with cavalry, modern weapons and arsenal techs while other one is all infantry with special dancers (NA healers should be as strong as villagers) and their economy is more steady on long term.
Lets be serious, plaza womt dissappear, it has been there for 15y and is a mark of native civs as principal feature. Is like aiming for wonders removing, it wont happen.
The Plaza is as bad as the firepit. If the devs want to continue to be openly racist, that’s on them, but I’m not gonna stop bringing up that they used my culture and promised to make change for the better as part of their marketing strategy.
Eventually they’ll make change or the game will end.
You’re talking about game mechanics, not historically or culturally.
Like what would you even do if they add Mapuche to the game?
Not give them cavalry so they fit the scheme of “they aren’t from Tortuamerica so they should follow the same scheme as Inca and Aztecs”? “just pretend they are from North America for no discernible reason”?
Making the Inca play the same as the Aztecs was a really weird design mistake already, don’t think doubling down on it is the answer, particularly if we’re talking about fixing the scheme of how these civilizations play.
They were following AoE2 scheme, walling with big houses, garrisoning units in “castles”, wololo… but yeah day 0 inca felt too much comparison with aztecs.
Its not about NA vs SA but Urban societies vs tribal ones. But still, all of them are in the same cultural group for years now. Any new native civ should get 2 ceremonies on the plaza and 5 politicians to be consistent.
This mindset shows you don’t really know much about the way Native Americans set up their “cities”. The Mayans alone refused the idea of a singular city and would create “cities” miles and miles long that would be normal city buildings put next to farm fields. The prairie cultures had nomadic gatherings every month or so, and some of these could exceed several thousand tipis in size, which could be 10k+ people in a gathering.
It’s not about “urban vs rural,” that concept barely existed in indigenous America. Because of how permaculture was prioritized as the main form of agriculture, life and cities had to be organized with crops as close to as many people as possible.
From my perspective, I’m treating it more as Mesoamericans, Tortuamericans, and then the South Americans are best left to someone who knows them well, like HoopThrower. But the Aztecs and Lakota have about as much in common as the British and Mongolians, and are about as far apart - trying to force them to fit the same cultural region is just a stereotype relying on racism to function, and that is not OK.
Well this ekdal guy has no clue and posting bs every day. Not first time seeing him 
Like any agriculture based society at their beggining??
Call them whatever you want but I havent seen a lakota or Haudenosaunee building made of stone or similar affecting the enviroment permanently; mayans, aztecs and Inca did.
Aztecs and lakota have different units and cards, with unique rosters and mechanics, being the lakota the most unique with teepes, mobile buildings and a completely different playstyle.
They are far from being the same, sharing a plaza and farms is not enough to say that. The only issue are Haudenosaunne not mining while they already did.
Going back to main topic, war and siege ceremonies could have half effect over these units. Anyways I dont think they would be an issue as their coin eco is poor to spam mercenaries. About stats, someone can try them on map editor, I cant play for some days
I could spend three hours explaining why all of this is so clearly wrong, but I don’t have time for that.
Please, just stop commenting. It’s like watching someone with no idea how aerodynamics or rocket science work trying to explain to NASA engineers how to build the Artemis SLS Rocket - you think you know things, but you are just so far away from anything actually pertinent that explaining to you why you’re wrong will take more time than creating this design itself.
Muy bien, gracias por tu aportación. Tan útil como siempre
¿Cuando te ibas exactamente?
Im not here trying to rebuild half of the game from 0. You went from adding mercenaries to 4 civs to redesigning an entire cultural group that has been there for 15y. That wont happen because they are main features of these civs. Devs said that they wont split germans, an easier movement, so they wont split a whole cultural group. You can like it or not, but Its just like that.
This topic is about mercenaries, lets talk about mercenaries and how we can balance them for natives
Adding mercs to the Natives as they are now would result in a lot of broken units that would be unplayable because of how awfully designed the Native civs are at their foundation.
To add to this discussion with my own knowledge. Nahua travelling merchants were prolific users of mercenaries. Not being nobles, they didn’t have retainers, but they could afford to hire soldiers instead.
The winner of the civil war for the throne Tzintzuntzan and unifier of the Tarascan Empire is recorded as having asked nahua merchants to lend him their mercenaries in exchange for titles of nobility, since he had few troops of his own.
So a Trade House works for the Aztecs too.
Side Note: The nahuatl word for mercenary was the same as that for servant: tlaquehualli.
I want to link this post here to note that they’re very related, but not really the same topic.
But
I did push for the potential creation of the first Native American Mercenary unit in the Lakota card rework - the ######## Cloud Sisters, along with a Lakota-unique Warchief to empower them, Chief Pretty Nose, as a card-able Mercenary Hero to act alongside the Lakota Warchief. She would have an aura that empowers Mercenaries, helping to give the Lakota a potential push towards using Mercenaries alongside a rework that allows them to use them.
The Cloud Sisters themselves would likely be a Mercenary style Rifle Rider or Carbine Cavalry.
I was considering other potential units that could be made for Native Americans, and I was thinking that the Cree Tracker could be made into a variant, although I’d have to do some digging to find a potential new name for the Cree unit.
I’ll do some more thinking and see if I can make a short list of potential Native American Mercenary units.
I’ve been stewing on the North-South divide since this past January and would have honestly liked it if DE split up the natives into two DLCs that addressed the issue:
-The War Chiefs, featuring the Haudenosaunee, the Lakota (plus Dakota, Cheyenne, Nakota, and friends), the Iron Confederacy, and the Muskogeans (shorthand for all the “Five Civilized Tribes”).
-The Golden Citadels, featuring the Nahua (yeah that’s right, we’re renaming the Aztecs), Inca, Mapuche, and Guarani.
How do they get differentiated, though?
War Chiefs civs cannot mine, but in return they have the Plaza/Pit/whatever. War Chiefs civs are also more focused in general on early game, rush, raids, whatever. Hauds and 5CTs should be able to access European goodies like Arsenal techs and some mercenaries (European ones for Hauds, African ones for 5CTs) in the form of shipments. Sioux and IC should be able to suck up the natural resources like nobody’s business and take early but somewhat fragile map control (unique cavalry villagers? Cheap but shitty tower?)
Golden Citadels civs should have more of an incentive to boom or turtle, maybe they can do good stuff late game. They can mine. Plaza replaced with the Temple, which contains techs to buff the War Chief and two unique Royal Embassy-like cooldown Big Buttons that are unique to the civ. Aztecs have a Serpent Temple that also acts like the Golden Pavilion. Inca have a Sun Temple that provides building improvements. Mapuche have a Spirit Temple (feel free to tell me what it SHOULD actually be called) that has something blatantly ripped off from WoL. Guarani have a Jesuit Temple that gets them ######## ####### Techs and Surgeons.
So what would each of these eight civs share?
-Support cards from tribes historically associated with them, that cost Coin to send, ship native units or civ units, and buff one of the civ’s normal units
-Renegade Europeans (each native civ should really have an “INFINITE Renegade [X]” card in their decks). Mapuche get Argentines that send INF Mounted Granaderos. Hauds get Dutch that send INF Halberdiers. Iron Confederacy get Canadians that send, I dunno, INF Hussars? Nahua and Inca get TWO Spanish cards that send, respectively, INF Lancers and INF Skirmishers. Guarani get Brazilians that send hordes of INF Voluntarios. Lakota get Americans that send INF Regulars.
-War Chief buff auras.
-Unique houses tricks I guess. Lakota Teepees. Inca Kanchas. Haud Longhouses. Nahua Taquerias? (I kid but what the hell does their gimmick look like?) And so on.
And this is what I’ve got so far.
I, uh… I’m not a fan of any of this. Basically everything you listed about the Lakota + Hauds is exactly what we’re trying to avoid. From getting away from using Warchiefs to getting rid of the Plaza entirely and giving mining back to the Hauds and making it a Lakota-unique aspect… well, you kinda just went in the exact opposite direction I think they should be going.
Lakota and Haude both get an almost-free +21% yield on all coin mines which is pretty dang good to get on top of their normal civ bonuses.
Native Mercenary idea:
Osage Giants - A robust archer with a fast rate of fire.
The Osage people are notable for having explorers note upon their unusual height as well as the wood of the osage orange tree being one of the best woods on the prairie for a bowyer - I know even my own uncle has referenced this.
With this, an unusually tall archer with more health than usual and a fast rate of fire would make for an interesting Age 3 Mercenary unit, and potentially be an infinite card shipment for the Lakota, as the Osage are also a Siouan people and would have been within the sphere of influence of the Oceti Sakowin (the Seven Fires).
Yield is not gather rate though. It give more coin to mine, but not collecting faster
Sounds like iron troop…just,instead of more armour yours has more hp, which is better
