Nearly outdated stuff that could be useful. (Potential improvements)

The thing about this game is that civs have unique mechanics, so no not every civ should have something unique to livestock. Why would you milk or gather wool when you have mills and plantations? Also livestock is already really good with 1 or 2 cards. People just dont like the micromanaging, but thats the pay-off.

Again, taking one civs unique mechanic and applying it to others. Priests, Surgeons and Field hospital just need a heal buff or some other small buff like increased hp when near units of like 5% to a maximum of 10%

Natives dont need change in mechanics. They are not supposed to be OP, their units are a nice addition to your armies when pop space runs out and some of the upgrades are really good. Almost all natives (cant think of one who doesnt) have atleast 1 good upgrade. Their practical benefit is to your army and often economy aswell trough upgrades. Some natives are even essential if you want the upper edge on your opponent.

If you need good artillery it can be a decent card. But I always thought that card upgraded all artillery or does it just have the same image?

It should be a card, as thats the point of the homecity. You need to think about what things you might encounter in-game. Then you have to thing can I deal with it effectivly with everything I got as a civ or do I need extra bonusses from the homecity? Thats the extra layer of strategy. If you know your civ is fulnerable against mercenaries, or in ranked you find yourself dealing with strong Swedish or German push of mercenaries, you want those cards. Assasins and agents are also very strong in treaty. I do agree that spies should get an upgrade within church, to buff them a little more, like +20% hp and being faster in stealth. Spies being able to shoot would be pretty OP, and warrant a card, not an upgrade in my opinion.

Well. Livestock is practical in treaty, in supremacy not so much because it is thought in the medium term, but with an enemy pressing you it is very risky.

Surgeons and priests, despite the benefit of curing, almost no one uses them because in general the exercises are almost never still.

The spies with the ranged attack will not be op because it is a too specialized unit. It’s just an idea that I propose to be unlockable with a card.

The native villages are excellent, but many times they are not used because they are not a priority.

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Thats not on the game, but on the players. You say yourself, they are exelent, buffs would make them too strong and force players to take them, which limits strategy.

Over 500 ranged attack against mercenaries isnt OP? 200 for normal isnt OP? Mercenary civs can pack their bags as every European nation can just spam the cheap spies to heavily counter it.

I am not entirely sure if other civs get it aswell, but the Russian deck as a possibility to send 7 sheeps and 1 economy wagon which can be turned into a livestock building, mill or plantation. That is a total value of atleast 2300 resources for an Age 1 shipment. Britain can also easily go for livestock due to their extra card and usually a lot of wood and food gathering.

But still they are not used enough. They must have more relevance within the game.

Well. I’m not suggesting they have all that damage. What I’m saying is that spies can be improved in some way. Also spies are not cheap either.

But it can be better. This forum is not exactly about balance. Just new ideas and ways to play. Rescue things that are hardly used.

I dont know what game you play, but I have often people begging for me to delete the trade post, so they can have it. Its on the game to force players to go natives, its the players job.

Lets give pikeman a 50x cavalry multiplier, because they are underused.

Spies counter mercenaries, mercenaries cost 200+, spies cost 125, their value is thus greater. They will easily kill a mamluk which costs 400.

Everything can get better, again, 50x cavalry multiplier. Or towers being used too little, lets give them 200 damage increase and 10000 hp increase. Livestock is simply good aleady. Because players dont want to micromanage is again, not the devs job to fix. Thats the trade off. Livestick gives massive boosts and is perfectly fine as it is.

There is no need for rescue. All games gave niche items. Minecraft has golden axe, whoever uses that?

Natives are decently used, just about the same as mercenary focus.

Livestock is also decently used from what I see.

It is. Its all to do with AoE franchise. Balance is part of it. You advocate for change, so you might see it as fun ideas, but you do want them possibly added, meaning you are also partly serious about them. Then balance talks are definatly a thing too.

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I believe that for one reason or another, some of improvements from DE got stuck in just European civs, without extension to civs that had for example access to mercs before, like Asian civs. They got stuck with TAD mechanics, not having infinite mercs cards, access to Age V mercs through any means (maybe the atonement card that unlocks a buyable upgrade later on?), not having Age II artillery equivalent treatment to their power (flamethrowers cards, cost or speed has not been improved to match their actual power like you did for example with Gatling Guns when USA released or with Leather Canons; Flail Elephant), not upgrading some trickle cards like you’ve done with Capitalism to make them more viable and usable (Sumpctuary Laws remarkably underwhelming and underused in all game forms). China for example, is the only civ in the game has zero means of getting a semi-meaningful alternate income of xp that is not TP.

Same goes for irrelevant outlaws in comparison to African ones. Comanchero, Dacoit and maaaybe outlaw-ronin are the only kinda viable but then again, you are screwed because of their overly high pop-space. In addition, I believe that the card Dance Hall/ Atonement should help boost hp/attack of outlaws as well, since African civs get these options through HC cards but no other civ does.

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When I say improve, I don’t mean statistics. The intention of the forum is to improve the quality of life of the game. New mechanics or reworkings of things that are outdated.

I remember when the Ottomans didn’t have the Nizam soldiers. The ‘exclusive technologies’ menu only gave units and was pretty boring. Now it is one of the best cards in the game.

Before there was no logistic politician. It’s already a really fun way to play.

Now we have trade route by sea.

Japan has been given the possibility of obtaining goats.

Implementing new things is always good. New mechanics, new units, etc.

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Update: No implementations from this discussion are being tried right now in the PUP for the September Patch

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It’s a lot of potential work. If they do, it will be in months or years. :wink:
This forum has a more ambitious approach than most of the proposals. In the case of repeated cards, in which one is infinite and the other is not, it can be fixed soon.

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Right some of these will take a lot of time for sure, but as you also point out, some other can be easily fixed. It would be nice to see some being addressed each update, it doesn’t have to be everything at once. The problem is that right now no suggestions from this thread have been taken.

To be frank, it doesn’t bother me. The update is more focused on balance and post DLC performance. It’s good.

Why would they add everything the forums discuss?

You act like his ideas are all good.

Quality of life, means balance as well. Again, you are disgussing changes to how mechanics and units work. Not everything has to have incredible use, niche items have always been a thing, every game has them. The entire purpose of the spy is to be anti mercenary, its not supposed to be anything else. If you dont have someone spamming mercenaries, spies simply wont be used, its as simple as that.

Why is natives or livestock “outdated”? Because other civs have special bonusses? Thats the entire point of the civs! Not every civ has to have bonusses for everything. Next to that the “improvements” you say to add, would make things that are already good, even better and gives civ bonusses less value, which also imbalances the civs themselfs.

British have an unique mechanic for houses, so now you want every civ to get one? Because thats about the same you are supposing here.

Balance ≠ pure statistics.

If civ can be strong in competitive, but weak in casual as players are not that good. Gendarme spam used to be undefeatable and the only option usually came down to attack France early, which for casual players is like saying get good.

If you talk about implementations that would change balance you should bet your ■■■ people are going to talk about that, the forum is about that aswell, heck the person you replied to previously talks about the balance changes and that nothing from here is on it.

There is a difference of adding new things to a card that lacked power on its own, then a mechanic which is strong, but requires micromanagement which most players dont want to do.

Natives arent boring aswell, most of their unites are fun to play with, like the Huron or the Apache. You have a big misconception here, because I see just about the same use as natives as the fort.

Again something new thats implemented, not change of the old. It didnt change anything as it didnt give too much of an advantage, and again, was also involved in balance talks.

Which a lot of players already want to see go away, as it makes Japan very strong late game, which they didnt need as they were already a good civ. This is also not a “fun” addition.

Its not. If I added pikeman dealing 300 damage to everything, would you see it as a good addition? No ofcourse not. Because everything will come down to balance eventually.

There is no reason to debate. They are just points of view. Any opinion is welcome.

I have not suggested anything like that at any time, why do you assume that I am against balance?

This forum is only trying to represent the things that many players have wanted to be better. I only propose how it could be carried out and anyone can propose it.

About the little use of the natives, I am not the only forum that talks about this. In fact one of them was my inspiration to create this theme, collecting the things that can be better.

On cattle, since the mechanics that I propose would be historically feasible. Dairy farming has been going on for thousands of years and I would like a tribute to this. I think it would be enjoyable to watch.

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Could you please provide a quote on when I said those words specifically?

And for this one as well please.

And then followed with:

Note first you say: “No implementations from this discussion […]” Then you say: “[…] it doesnt have to be everything at once.

I dont know in what language you think you are writing here, but in English that means you want everything in this topic to be added, meaning you find OP’s ideas good, otherwise you wouldnt want that.

It doesnt have to be the exact words, that is not how language always works. Simply what you put means in context that you think his ideas are good. Same as saying slavery is not bad, and then when someone says “why do you think slavery is good” that you say quote were I say that.

Because refering to the above, you agree that the points made by OP in this topic should be added to the game, you then express your concern for the devs not adding a single thing from this thread and that you say you want atleast one and I quote: “it doesn’t have to be everything at once”, meaning you expect the devs to add all the points from this topic.

Thus the question to you why would they add everything? As if the developers would do what only a few people want (like 13 people upvoted in this topic), so if other topics reach 13 upvotes, do you expect the developers to do all of that topic as well? I could have worded the original comment better though, I do agree with you there.

Natives are used a lot in treaty (ranked there isnt a lot of treaty, but there is a lot in casual) Spies are also treaty mainly, so I dont see why everything has to be OP, so people use it all the time.

Doesnt matter cattle historically had also other uses. All countries in Europe had banks, but only the Dutch get them, because its a game and thats called game design.

Historically huge parts of population died of diseases, lets give every unit a 20% chance of dying for historical authencity!

Thats the purpose of this forum.