Nerf Japan/Swedes, buff Aztecs,China,and Russia

As we all know age of empires 3 has gotten better since launch, although not perfect I believe nerfing top civs like Japan and Swedes will make the game more balanced for lower tier civs. I know how hard it is to nerf and buff civs, that’s why I want to start a forum where top players give their opinions on civs like Swedes , French, and Japanese that are somewhat op, and also buff lower tier civs like the Aztecs, Chinese, and Russians. As a suggestion maybe Swedes and Japan need a villager maximum cap sort of like the Dutch have so their eco isn’t through the roof, maybe like 90 villager cap. Also Japan, maybe nerf ashigarus hp,or nerf heavenly kami,or make shrines more expensive. Sweden’s coraleans is op with 30 range resist, some civs like the Aztecs have no counter to them, the slingers are too weak and need a damage bonus to heavy infantry x3 like other civs have from their arsenals, the Jaguars are too slow to catch up to the coraleans, and coyotes are too weak. I say buff caroleans ranged and melee attacks to 20 down from 19 to help their early game weakness, but cut armor to 20 so their late games isn’t so op to the point where they can counter their counters. As an Aztec main I believe the Aztec late game need improvements like having better options to deal with artillery, I say give coyote runners 1.5 multiplayer against artillery like the chimu runners, also make slingers viable past age 4 by giving them a multiplier to heavy infantry like other skirmishers. Also can we get some love for Jaguar knights and skull knights they are very slow.


I feel like china is in a decent spot and needs a minor buff to steppe rider and that’s it

Japan needs a nerf to heavenly kami so shrines don’t get a massive discount, ashigaru need nerf to speed, yabusame need a range nerf

Sweden probably should weaken the effect of seva LG, Sweden is still strong in treaty and only become OP in 1v1 once getting that card.

French really are not OP at all

Aztec need an economic buff, and a card to make slingers decent past age 2

Russia could use a 8 villager card in age 3

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That aztecs buffs that are you sayong about are the temples cards. I think that coyotes should have a small multiplier against artillery and arrow knight other vs skirmishers. Aztecs dont have a counter to them at range


One thing I’ve been thinking of is changing the the Slinger Temple card.
From: +25% hitpoints and +2 range and line of sight
To: -2x multiplier on heavy infantry (to take the multiplier to 0), +1.5 multiplier to infantry, +3 range and line of sight

This definitely needs to be tweaked, but the idea would be that Slingers can trade effectively with skirms and do a bit worse versus heavy infantry. They’ll have 1 less range than skirms, but they should be able to trade efficiently. With JPKs, heavy infantry aren’t too large of a concern for Aztecs.

In a head to head match up this would have:
Vet Slinger w/ temple support: 70 resources, 100 HP, 30% RR, 10 attack (15 vs skirm) (1.5 sec), 19 range. Dies in just over 9.5 shots
Skirmisher: 115 resources, 120 HP, 30% RR, 15 attack (3 sec), 20 range. Dies in 11.5 shots (coming in twice as fast)

This might be too much. Definitely would require testing. Thoughts?

The problem with giving the bonus to Arrow Knights is that then the unit becomes too good with role compression. It then adds falconet to its list of roles (mortar, culverin, falconet) and might need nerfs to compensate.

China is strong. They dont need buffed. The rest has been said over and over.

I just had another game recently where i dominated the swede player keeping him below 10 vils from somewhere around the 10 minute mark. He still out resourced me w 43 vil.


Sweden and Japan
In my opinion the changes here are obvious. One of the primary issues with Sweden and Japan is that the payoff for raiding shrines and houses is too small. The opponent is forced to make lousy pikes because the shrines and torps have so much hp, but then the pikes get easily picked off by speedy musk that can’t be effectively punished. All you do is buy Japan and Sweden more time to auto-win.

  1. Reduce shrine and torp hitpoints, but not to an excessive amount.
  2. Reduce ashi speed to at least 4.25, perhaps with a decrease in cost to balance nerf.

I think reducing the hp of these buildings would just make for more enjoyable gameplay at the end of the day. It allows teams to actually play age 2 and makes map control worthwhile.

Design an arsenal-style building for Aztec (an actual aztec temple) that has a speed upgrade for Jags and a heavy infantry multiplier for slingers. I would do a a straight buff to arrow knights or add the artillery bonus damage for coyotes, as mentioned above.

This is the hardest one I think to buff without making them too strong. Would a 5 vil card be so op? The Russian player would be still have to choose between that and other valuable age 2 shipments. An earlier eco option would be appreciated. I also think a card that allows grenadier training at blockhouse along with a buff to blockhouse hp and attack would be neat. I mean, India can pop Agra age 2, and a blockhouse buff could help Russia actually keep control of their forward base for pressure.

China is fine, and have already been buffed since DE release, unlike Russia.


Perhaps we should consider a buff to Chinese flamethrowers or to Chinese anticav (Pikemen or Keshiks damage-wise, we’ll keep their fragile health for balance). The latter buff is much needed as Chinese anti cavalry is the bane of their civ, their only surefire counter are Manchus but they don’t get them until Age 3, and at a cost of 1000 gold with no way to produce anymore unless you get lucky with the Monastery…

The case for flamethrowers (particularly their cost or pop size), their current cost is 170 wood and 170 coin , range is 10, speed is 4.25, pop size is 4. If we compare it to the closest unit there is to it in Age 2, the Ottoman’s Abus Gun, we can see it fare horribly. The Abus Gun only costs 50 food and 100 coin, its range is 18, speed is 4, pop size is 2. At least Abus Guns can effectively kill what they counter (mass infantry at their range and could kite), flamethrowers can easily be kited and any attempt to use weak Steppe Riders to snare the enemy infantry will just be easily killed by musk fire/melee or hussars.

Only in Age II does the Flamethrower stay viable in army composition and even then China mainly excels at Fast Fortress plays. Even in Age II China Colonial play, the absurd amount of cost to field just a few flamethrowers is not viable, especially against an opponent who could just cav rush or kite all the flames as they usually do to China in Age II.

Now that brings us to China’s anticav, in most games China rarely fields Keshiks in Age 2, the Ming Army is almost useless to all infantry matchups and the inclusion of pikemen in a fight would just see them picked off by any infantry unit easily (even in cover mode). To make matters worse, China already struggles with anti cav in Age 2 as a musk and huss play usually forces a China player to their knees in a Age II battle or a horrendous naked Age III age up. Now you may say, just use Mongolian Army, well that either requires a Castle or the Russian Consulate Blockhouse. The former restricts you to that army and flames alone unless you waste another 200 wood for War Academy or send unit shipments but then you’ll be committed to Age II defense. The latter requires enough export or Good Faith Agreements which wastes a card and requires you to ally with Russians.

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China never seems to be short of their equivilent to the pikeman. Not sure if your serious. They tear through my cav all the time trying to get to their crossbowman.

Think he means late game anti cav, In the late game changdaos are a bad unit like any melee inf.

Oh my games with china never make it to the 4th age for either player

Well I at least hope you’re trying to kill the pikemen first with your musks or skirms. Anyways China’s anticav is a larger problem in the later ages too. Changdaos die so easily and pikemen cost tons of wood.

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Again and again new people and new post requiring nerf Japan and Sweden.

And again and again japan remains broken


I am pretty sure that people that say China is fine as it is have barely played with them. I am a China main and less than a week ago I started playing as Brits for the first time and from the beginning I was dominating most matches (way more than with China), barely having any experience with them. My eco was so huge that I almost felt I was cheating. Same thing happens when I play as French, Swedes, Germany, etc.

Japan really isn’t OP but honestly I would not mind a slight increase in cost to shrines, or just make the port consulate not effect shrine cost. The shrine boom is way overrated, tori gates is by far the best age up for japan.

Swedes are easily beatable, their carolean needs to be good because they lack a skirm.

Aztecs need a small buff for coyote runners nothing else, china are fine as they are just underplayed, russia are also perfectly fine, any buff to russia or china would just make them op.

Brit is one of the strongest civs in the game btw, it also depends on what exactly you do, if you do the age 2 rush it’s decent but no where near top tier, if you do the 7:45 min fortress age you mass units very fast

Personally I would say Russia already has a strong ECO . They just have a really bad army which decays hard.

I would say only give russia the ability to train skirms, they could be a weaker version of normal skirms. Or allow strelets to scale up to 20 range.

This only change won’t change their current early game without needing to overbuff it. And opens the door to a more confident Fast fortress play and to be able to deal more effectively against most army comps

I should really try that, I have only played China :laughing:

That depends on the player, swedes are tanky by design. They don’t even need that many villies to have a gross economy.

How are they broken with factories in age 2, really strong units and daimyos acting like a barrack/tower recieving shipments and creating units in batches of 10 wherever they want?

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