Next European Civ That Should Get An Update?

[Opdepov]

I have to say, if they’d made us guess which European faction would be the first to get an update like this. How many of us wouldve guessed British? I certainly wouldnt have guessed it.

It seems to me they want to move the timeline forward, away from the more archaic. Or at least give it as an option. I think the next updates will be similar to the British one, werein an archaic unit can get replaced in later ages.
Likely candidates for this treatment:

• Portugese Organ Guns
• German War Wagons
• Cavalry archers (Russians and Ottomans)

I don’t think melee units like doppelsoldner and Rodelero are candidates for this kind of rework as melee units don’t really have a more modern equivalent.

Dutch, Spanish and French don’t really have units that really qualify for the replacement and will (if they would get a rework) probably a slightly different treatment.

• Dutch - trainable musketeers? the Blue guard from the church made available?
• French - reworked old guard, more like the soldado instead of regular grenadiers?
• I honestly cant think of what they could give the Spanish as their roster feels so complete. But they def should get that big battleship.

[Konahrik1140]

@Opdepov

It seems to me they want to move the timeline forward, away from the more archaic. Or at least give it as an option.

That would explain the United States and Mexico.
Perhaps they want to pave the way for new civilizations from later time periods.

[AssertiveWall20]

The only types of “rework” I would like to see for the euro civs is cosmetic. Fancy architecture (customizable architecture expansion?) or relatively inconsequential units and cards that make them feel a little more unique but don’t really change much.

It’s OK that there are a group of core civs that play somewhat similar to each other and are relatively easy to understand.

[xPizzaSamuraixD]

Ottomans and Spanish are the ones that need it the most right now imo. An update or rework.
Not a buff or nerf.

[MUTYLATOR5553]

Germans

Below I will present some of my different ideas for Germans civ. Each of them is different because it takes into account a different function of this civ.

Germans civ renamed to Holy Roman Empire civ

In this variant (most suited to this civ) Germans civ would be renamed Holy Roman Empire civ. This civ is already archaic and a few new HC Cards could be gently modernized this civ thanks to units from different regions of HRE.

This variant includes the addition of new civs: Austria-Hungary civ & Prussians civ

Cards:

1. [NEW] Hire Swiss Pikemen - Ships 5 Swiss Pikemen; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Barracks and Forts

2. [NEW] Modernization of the Holy Roman Empire - Crossbowmen is replaced by Raupenhelm Infantry (Bavarian unit) and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Saxon Musketeer

3. [NEW] Castle - One-time ships a unique building - Castle (tougher than a regular Fort; you can train mercenaries and artillery (Trebuchet - available to trainable only in Castle); no possibility of improvement (it is modeled on Neuschwanstein Castle))

4. [CHANGE] TEAM Hire Holy Roman Army - now after use this card Landsknecht, Black Riders and Jaegers is available for training

5. [NEW] Oktoberfest - Taverns will start to generate food or coins; increases the limit of Taverns

6. [NEW] Hussite Armored vehicle - War Wagon can now transport units

Germans civ renamed to Prussians civ

In this variant, Germans civ would be renamed Prussians civ. This civ would receive some new HC Cards to modernize this civ in Prussian style. It would be a bit bizarre with the current units (which Prussia never had).

This variant includes the addition of a new civ: Austria-Hungary civ

Cards:

1. [NEW] Ślōnski Wōngel - one-time card; the possibility of building Bergwerk (Mine) on the Mines, which increase the resource and give the opportunity to train a Miner (unit from the campaign) - the building would work similarly to the Ethiopian Mountain Monastery

2. [NEW] Modernization of Army - Crossbowmen is replaced by Landwehr and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Silesian Schuetzen

3. [NEW] Prussian Charge - big button; For the next 14 seconds, Musketeers and Landwehr’s have their speed increased by 1,5 but are locked into Ranged Mode. 90 seconds cooldown; shared across all Musketeers and Landwehr’s.

4. [NEW] Prussian Musketeers - Musketeer is available for training in Barracks and Forts

5. [NEW] Potsdam Giants - Skirmisher is replaced by Potsdam Giant

Germans civ renamed to Austria-Hungary civ

In this variant, Germans civ would be renamed Austria-Hungary civ. This civ would get some new HC Cards that would transform this civ into multi-ethnic Austria-Hungary - this is definitely easier than converting this civ into Prussians civ. Of course, in this case, Berlin and Frederick the Great would be implemented in Prussians civ.

This variant includes the addition of a new civ: Prussians civ

Cards:

1. [NEW] Festung ships of Festung Wagon; the possibility of building Festung (connection of the Barrack with the Stable. Unlike Fort and Blockhouse, it doesn’t defend. It has more than 2700 HP, but requires 450 wood and the construction time is 45 seconds);

2. [NEW] Modernization of Army - Crossbowmen is replaced by Hajduk and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Pandur

3. [NEW] Austrian Cavalry - Uhlan is replaced by Hungarian Hussars; Dragoon is available for training in Stables and Forts

4. [NEW] Grenzer - counterpart to Militiaman. He loses HP, but only to 75% HP. They train in groups of 5. They can also be summoned in the Outpost and in the Fort (up to two times per building

5. [NEW] Austrian Musketeers - Skirmisher is replaced by Musketeer

Germans civ keeping Germans civ

The least ambitious and the most boring variant. Making Germans civ what it is meant to be (i.e. a German-wide civ) but in a slightly better way. The new HC Cards in this variant would have to work in a different way to be able to represent both Austria-Hungary, Prussia, the Holy Roman Empire and United Germany at all.

Unfortunately, this variant does not provide for new civs

Cards:

These four brand branchs of new HC Cards would be of enormous importance to Germans civ in this variant. Choosing one of them would deprive us of the choice of the others - in this way the Germans civ sound would be much more varied and at least a bit more immersive, correct and fun. Each of these Cards would unlock a unique branch of other Cards related to a specific German Empires. The cards already present in Germans civ would be used in this option. In order to be able to choose the branch of the Cards that interests us, select the flag in Home City before the entertainment (a new option that could be unique for both Germans civ and Italians civ). This option would be available as a button in the Home City menu - much like the skin change option for Explorer.

Of course, we all know that in AoE 3, Cards correspond to specific buildings in HC. Therefore, something new would be created for this system - the Imperial Flagship. It would be a gigantic mast on which one of the 4 flags you choose would hang. From this building, new Unique Cards of Germans civ would be sent.

[NEW BRANCH OF CARDS] Kingdom of Prussia

1. TEAM Teutonic Town Center

2. [NEW] Ślōnski Wōngel - one-time card; the possibility of building Bergwerk (Mine) on the Mines, which increase the resource and give the opportunity to train a Miner (unit from the campaign) - the building would work similarly to the Ethiopian Mountain Monastery

3. [NEW] Prussian Discipline - Long-range Infantry get +10% hit points and +15% speed +4 Uhlans

4. [NEW] Franz von Winckler - one-time card; ships of Arsenal Wagon, increase of limit to 2 Arsenals +3 Uhlans

5. [NEW] Prussia’s Glory - unit training speed in Barracks and Forts increases by 33% +4 Uhlans

6. [NEW] Modernization of Army - Crossbowmen is replaced by Landwehr and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Silesian Schuetzen

7. [NEW] Potsdam Giants - Skirmisher is replaced by Potsdam Giant

8. [NEW] Prussian Charge - big button; For the next 14 seconds, Musketeers and Landwehr’s have their speed increased by 1,5 but are locked into Ranged Mode. 90 seconds cooldown; shared across all Musketeers and Landwehr’s.

9. [NEW] 5 Musketeers - Ships 5 Musketeers +3 Uhlans

10. [NEW] 7 Musketeers - Ships 7 Musketeers +4 Uhlans

11. [NEW] 10 Musketeers - Ships 10 Musketeers +3 Uhlans

12. [NEW] Prussian Musketeers - Musketeer is available for training in Barracks and Forts

[NEW BRANCH OF CARDS] Austria-Hungary

1. Polish Winged Hussars rename to “Winged Hussars arrived”

2. Lipizzaner Cavalry

3. Spanish Riding School

4. [NEW] Festung ships of Festung Wagon; the possibility of building Festung (connection of the Barrack with the Stable. Unlike Fort and Blockhouse, it doesn’t defend. It has more than 2700 HP, but requires 450 wood and the construction time is 45 seconds);

5. TEAM Band of Landsknecht Mercenaries

6. Hire Landsknecht Mercenaries - Ships 6 Landsknechte; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Barracks and Forts

7. [NEW] Modernization of Army - Crossbowmen is replaced by Hajduk and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Pandur

8. [NEW] Danubian Army - infinite card; Ships 7 Pandurs and 5 Hajduk’s

9. [NEW] Austrian Musketeers - Musketeer is available for training in Barracks and Forts

10. [NEW] Grenzer - counterpart to Militiaman. He loses HP, but only to 75% HP. They train in groups of 5. They can also be summoned in the Outpost and in the Fort (up to two times per building

11. [NEW] Austrian Cavalry - Uhlan is replaced by Hungarian Hussars; Dragoon is available for training in Stables and Forts

12. [NEW] Rottweiler Dog - Ships 1 Rottweiler; Rottweiler is available for training by Explorer

[NEW BRANCH OF CARDS] German Empire

1. [NEW] Otto von Bismarck - ships a Otto von Bismarck; this hero resembles an American General

2. [NEW] German Empire Cavalry - War Wagon is replaced by Totenkopf Hussar

3. [NEW] Modernization of Army - Crossbowmen is replaced by Landwehr and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Jaeger

4. [NEW] Freikorps - Skirmisher is replaced by Freikorp

5. [NEW] German Shepherd - Ships 1 German Shepherd; German Shepherd is available for training by Explorer and Otto von Bismarck

6. [NEW] Reichstag - One-time ships a unique building - Reichstag (this building resembles the American Capitol)

7. 1 Ironclad - infinite card; Ships 1 Ironclad

8. [NEW] Familok - Houses provide +1 population; now Freikorps is avilable to train in Houses

9. [NEW] Rise of Factories - increase of limit to 5 Factories +3 Uhlans

10. [NEW] German Empire Army - infinite card; Ships 8 Landwehr and 3 Totenkopf Hussar

11. [NEW] Mobilization - All Settlers turn into Freikorps

12. [NEW] Howitzer - now Howitzer is avilable to train in Artillery Foundry and Forts

[NEW BRANCH OF CARDS] Holy Roman Empire

1. Solingen Steel

2. Palatine Settlements

3. Treaty of Westphalia

4. Germantown Farmers

5. TEAM Band of Landsknecht Mercenaries

6. Hire Hessian Jaegers - Ships 8 Jaeger; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Barracks and Forts

7. Hire Landsknecht Mercenaries - Ships 6 Landsknechte; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Barracks and Forts

8. TEAM Hire Holy Roman Army

9. TEAM Hire Hessians

10. Hire German Black Riders - Ships 5 Black Riders; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Stable and Forts

11. [NEW] Hire Swiss Pikemen - Ships 5 Swiss Pikemen; costs 1,000 coin; available for training in Barracks and Forts

12. [NEW] Modernization of the Holy Roman Empire - Crossbowmen is replaced by Raupenhelm Infantry (Bavarian unit) and Doppelsoldner is replaced by a Saxon Musketeer

13. [NEW] Castle - One-time ships a unique building - Castle (tougher than a regular Fort; you can train mercenaries and artillery (Trebuchet - available to trainable only in Castle); no possibility of improvement (it is modeled on Neuschwanstein Castle))

[UpmostRook9474]

There is no need to create a new German civilization.

My ideas for the Germans are based directly on the existing German civilization.

At the TC in the Commerce Age, the a bit expensive techs “Austrian Support”, “Prussian Support”, “Bavarian Support”, “Saxony Support”, and “Württemberg Support” were added. The player can research only one of them, and the other options will disappear.

Austrian Support:
Focus on the original characteristics, making the standard combination of Skirmishers + Cavalry more advantageous.

• Replaces Skirmishers with Grenzers at Barracks and Forts. Grenzer is a Sharpshooter-like unit, with higher cost, lower HP, a bit longer range and higher attack than a common Skirmisher, and can be trained in the Commerce Age.
• Turns all the existing Skirmishers and Skirmisher shipment cards into Grenzers.
• Uhlan and War Wagon upgrade cost -40%.
• Since the Industrial Age, Magyar Hussars can be trained at Forts.

Prussian Support:
More inclined to European classic characteristics and can adapt to various situations.

• Potzdam Musketeer can be trained at Barracks and Forts. Potzdam Musketeer has higher attack but slightly shorter range than a common Musketeer.
• Each bonus Uhlan that comes with shipments will be replaced with 2 Potzdam Musketeers.
• Prussian Needle Gun upgrade cost -40%.
• Replaces Uhlans and War Wagons with Hussars and Dragoons at Stables and Forts.
• Turns all the existing Uhlans and War Wagons into Hussars and Dragoons. However the their shipment cards will be unaffected and will also share upgrade along with Hussars and Dragoons. Guard Hussars will be renamed to Winged Hussars and better get a new look to give them wings.

Bavarian Support:
Balanced option between economics and military.

• Ships 2/4/7/10 Settler Wagons if this is researched in the Commerce/Fortress/Industrial/Imperial Age. Settler Wagons work +10%, training limit +5.
• Replaces War Wagons with Chevaulegers at Stables and Forts. Chevauleger is a weaker Hakkapelit-like unit, but uses only 1 pop and is trainable in the Commerce Age.
• Turns all the existing War Wagons and War Wagon shipment cards into Chevaulegers.
• Black Riders can be trained at Taverns, Stables and Forts.

Saxony Support:
Suitable for rush, and encourages the use of Outlaws or Mercenaries to assist in combat.

• Ships 7/10/16/30 Musketeers if this is researched in the Commerce/Fortress/Industrial/Imperial Age. Musketeers can be trained at Forts and automatically upgrade.
• All infantry units +10% melee damage.
• Tavern build limit +2, and it can support 20 pop.
• Artillery, Outlaws and Mercenary coin cost reduced by 15%.

Württemberg Support:
Focus on the economy entirely.

• This Support may be cheaper than other 4 Supports above.
• Resource incomes from the Trade Routes +20%.
• Settlers and Settler Wagons gather +10% faster on Estates.
• Ships 1 Fort Wagon, 1 Homestead Wagon and 10 Pigs after hitting the Fortress Age
• Replaces Sheep with Pigs at Livestock Pen. Pigs can be fatten faster than Sheep.

Whichever one is chosen, the Militiamen will be upgraded to Freikorps.
Freikorps have 50% more health and 50% more attack than common Militiamen.

[Opdepov]

Why would Prussia get the famous Polish winged hussar? Especially when there is a famed Prussian Hussar regiment that could be used instead?

I do think we need to temper our expectations a bit. British get like 6 new cards and some adjustements, seems unlikely Germans will get so much more than that. I could be wrong ofc but it seems to me we wont get much more than a War wagon replacement card and perhaps a Landwehr musketeer enabler (since Landwehr is a general term that could refer to multiple German states).
I’ll mostly hope for some cards to enhance the German merc game, since that’s mostly surpassed by Sweden atm. An Oktoberfest card that removes the build limit of taverns but removes the gold trickle for example. And a rework of the useless Wallenstein’s tech.

[UpmostRook9474]

@Opdepov

Why would Prussia get the famous Polish winged hussar? Especially when there is a famed Prussian Hussar regiment that could be used instead?

Winged Hussars are already in the game. One of the card from the German desk.
Since they are essentially the same unit, the Hussars trained from the Stables and shipped from the home city technically must have the same name, and keeping using them Winged Hussars would make the theme coherent. There’s even a chance to get them a new winged look.

The Prussians ruled parts of Poland, which made it reasonable for them to have Winged Hussars. I wouldn’t object to changing the name, but that would mean the card “Polish Winged Hussars” would have to be renamed along with it.

@Opdepov

British get like 6 new cards and some adjustements, seems unlikely Germans will get so much more than that.

My ideas are to address the question of whether the German civilization belonged to Austria or Prussia, and thus to satisfy the community as much as possible so that it would no longer demand a second German civilization. For this purpose, more work is naturally required.

The British need less rework because their problems are not as numerous and complex as the Germans. Different civs require different workloads according to their own conditions, so there is no need to compare them.

@Opdepov

I’ll mostly hope for some cards to enhance the German merc game, since that’s mostly surpassed by Sweden atm. An Oktoberfest card that removes the build limit of taverns but removes the gold trickle for example. And a rework of the useless Wallenstein’s tech.

I think the problem is with the Swedes and not with the Germans.

Except for the lack of musketeers, the Germans are actually quite complete and didn’t need much help from mercenaries. Even the lack of musketeers isn’t very important in the late game. On the other hand, the Swedes’ lack of skirmishers and light cavalry makes their weakness very obvious, so they have to be very active in the use of mercenaries.

I agree to buff Wallenstein’s Contracts, such as making it able to benefit team mercenary cards and infinite mercenary cards, or making it as cheap as 1500 coins. Other than that, I don’t think the Germans needed more help with the mercenaries. Maybe also allow to have 3 more types of mercenaries at Taverns than other civs, and that’s it.

[Opdepov]

@UpmostRook9474

Winged Hussars are already in the game. One of the card from the German desk.
Since they are essentially the same unit, the Hussars trained from the Stables and shipped from the home city technically must have the same name, and keeping using them Winged Hussars would make the theme coherent. There’s even a chance to get them a new winged look.

The Prussians ruled parts of Poland, which made it reasonable for them to have Winged Hussars. I wouldn’t object to changing the name, but that would mean the card “Polish Winged Hussars” would have to be renamed along with it.

Im fully aware of the winged hussar card and its dissapointing unit graphics. However Winged Hussar have nothing to do with Prussia even if they ruled parts of Poland (like Austria and Russia). The card is in al likelyhood a reference to the siege of Vienna which was lifted by the Polish. If the Polish would ever come to the game they would surely have this unit. But it has no place in a German and/or Prussian civ. Not as a trainable unit at least. It could perhaps become their repeatable native unit shipment reworking winged hussar as a native unit for Polish trade sites if the Poles would never come as a full faction.

[UpmostRook9474]

@UpmostRook9474

• Skirmishers were replaced with Grenzers. Grenzer is a Sharpshooter-like unit, with higher cost, lower HP, a bit longer range and higher attack than a common Skirmisher, and can be trained in the Commerce Age.

I just found out that the name Grenzer has been used as a Revolutionary variant of the Hungarian Revolution. But I think the Grenzers were the most famous infantry in Austria, and they are very reasonable for the Austrian Support.

I don’t want to just rename the Grenzer to the Austrian Jäger. Maybe rename the Revolutionary variant of the Hungarian Revolution to Honvéd, and leave the name Grenzer for Austrian Support.

The tern Honvéd was first used to refer to the volunteers in the revolution, and I think it is more appropriate to refer to the Hungarian Revolutionary, no matter whether the Germans would be changed to have those Supports.

Royal Hungarian Honvéd | History

[ArkadasLlisa]

Germans would be nice, because their merc identity has been compromised by Sweden. Making them able to train the german mercs on barracks and stables would overlap with the Sweden, but I don’t know what could be done.

Would be nice to add Polish Winged Lancers skin (could be reworked as a mercenary), and some other rework related to consolidate their HRE identity.

[Nevonidas]

Mercenary available is good for sweedens, for german I prefeer add new mercenaries shipments in age II, rework “wallenstein” merc/tech/church and add a new shipment in church/card.

And copy a similar card like the new brittish card “Greenwich”

[MagnoGardino]

Honestly, I thought your idea was good, but I have the caveat that these techs are available at TC, and are only searched once. Perhaps it would be something more viable infinite shipping letters with regular troops from each of these regions.

• Austrians would deliver redesigned grenadiers (sort of like the Mexican Soldado - but weaker and no bonus on musket and bayonet attacks, bonus only on grenade attack).
  • Prussians: Musketeers, but regular musketeers, maybe with a +10% resistance bonus…
• Bavarians: Delivery of the Chevauxleger unit
• Saxony: Because of the personal union between the electorate of Saxony and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth you get Ulans and an exclusive technology from the arsenal for them (here we have to use our imagination to think of something)
• Finally, I exchange Wuttemberg for the Ecclesiastical Electorates: hand over a small contingent of Swiss guards and a Legate (a unit similar to the Mexican priest)

[UpmostRook9474]

@MagnoGardino

but I have the caveat that these techs are available at TC, and are only searched once.

I did it on purpose.

For infinite shipment, you just need to make them into cards. But that doesn’t really deal with the Germans’ problem, that people wanted Prussia and Austria as different civs.

In my design, the most important thing is to “retrofit” small part of the German tech tree to simulate a different civ. For example, when the player chooses Austrian Support, the German tech tree will be Austrianized to appear as if it were an Austrian civ.

Therefore, this design concept is not suitable for infinite shipment, and picking only one option is not suitable for even being a card in my opinion. Conversely, it would be very fitting to make them a kind of tech similar to Politician and Revolution mechanics.

Btw, this design is completely not about the advancing the age and revolution, so even after the player choose either Austria, Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony or Württemberg, it can still be revolt to Hungary or Gran Colombia because the civ is still Germans.

[MagnoGardino]

I understood better what you meant. The suggested mechanics are really good… I believe the Austrians could also give a line infantry option.
Anyway, I think many people here agree that the Germans need some better options than they have today.

[Haveliko]

Ottomans and Germans most voted?

It is noted that each one chooses his favorite civ.

The ottomans, good rush and good ff, and they already have new units (Nizam), what more do you want?

And Germans, good eco, good raid and good skirmisher, what more do you want?

There are other civs that need an urgent rework.

[Haveliko]

Cant you think of what they could give the Spanish?

Ok, I tell you.

To begin with, skirmishers were created by the Spanish against Napoleon. Even the Iberians were already using lightning attacks against the Romans.

The Spanish must have good skirms.

O Second, upgrade the musks or replace them with arquebusiers. Early game unit.

They can also be of the third age and replace them with the skirms.

Or third, introduce the Jesuits or the Portuguese gunboat which is clearly a Spanish arquebusier.

All this leads to removing the unction card that is useless or reworked.

Spain and all civs needs good units of range, its the metagame.

[Ekdal1378]

@Haveliko

All this leads to removing the unction card that is useless or reworked.

Ha ha its their best card for treaty, if you remove that they are dead

[SilverAMS]

Skirmisher weren’t created by spanish… What is this crappy and not historical take on this?! Spanish coined the term guerrilla, although a similar term was already coined by french during the seven years war in america…

Spanish must have good skirms? Based on what?

Dunno, but this seems to be biased toward some sort of spanish nationalism

[StatelyPlayer64]

y tu? eh? las guerrillas hispánicas vienen desde hace bastante tiempo atrás, incluso en la batalla de Cartagena de indias quedo demostrado o los episodios de las “encamisadas” como en la batalla de castelnouvo, nacionalismo español dices? anda a joder, lo que mínimo se busca es que España tenga algo bueno! escriben mentira de ella, le dan los peores tratos unidades rancias y no tiene ningún bonus decente, España desde el vainilla a sido una civ basura, y ahora apenas y se sostiene (y que conste no soy español, soy chileno, pero ya no soporto mas el sesgo de la leyenda negra) y parece que tu ocultas cierto antisemitismo español.