If you look at ranked tg ladder, you can see we have a new #1 and 3k4 thanks to the elo “fix”! The way he did it was just by teaming up with a massively underrated (smurf) friend and beating up some tg 2k1 players. Technically any above average player could do this at the moment.
Maybe just reset the Elo tg and come up with a different formula before too much damage gets done?
4 Likes
I disagree with the reset as a whole. Take away 1k points if you want, but a whole tg reset means decent player have to waste their time playing games against bad player.
Ofc they have to fix this, but resetting the ladder back to the start of the game where we have to spend hours playing against 800 elo players doesn’t look like the right solution to me
1 Like
Just reset the ladder tbh. Good players will quickly shoot up in elo and after the initial hurdle, the problem will sort itself.
4 Likes
The new system also supports smurfing. The smurf now only gets around 16 Elo each win, which lets you destroy noobs for at least 50 games, until the Elo is around the level of your friends. The old system boostet the smurf where he belongs within just 10 games…
1 Like
they still have to waste time playing against players they usually are not up against to. this goes both for highly skilled players and intermediate skilled players
1 Like
And this does happen in the current system, since the ELOs will be all over the place for a very, very long time. Might as well reset it, have it be annoying for 2-3 weeks and be done with it.
1 Like
I was sure this would happen the second i read the info about the new system. Why would a 2.5k player still get so many points beating an average 2k team…and even if u dont abuse it and just want to play with friends…in this system they can never catch up with u, if u only play with them…how stupid is that? I dont know why they thought this would be a good change.
Many other games have a good elosystem. Why just dont do it like them instead of trying sth. new? I mean it was obv. that this system would suck.
I also think a reset should be done. If you let the first games have more impact on your elo, it shouldnt even be a problem to get higher than “noobs” and face similiar opponents.
The current system is much better then previous system, but there are still some issues. Just to name a few:
the ladder is still a mess
The previous calculation created a mess. Fixing the calculation doesnt make it instantly clean again. For many players it will take hunderds of games before everything is normalized. For that reason i suggest a full reset of the ladder. Giving the placements games at the start (you will gain much more elo for winning these games) and the connection with other ladders (1v1 which is a good estimate of you skill) i am pretty sure that the ratings will settle pretty quickly. Most players will need about 10 games before the game start keeping much more balanced. If we do nothing and let time do its work, then we needs much, much more games before everything is normalized as well. So a full reset is the quickest way to get into balanced games on the team game ladder.
So for me this is clearly wrong. You dont need to spend hours playing with these players (given your skill is much higher).
Smurfing is bad for the game
The game is currently broken because of smurfs. The abuse of the TG match making system is only possible because of smurfs. This just shows how bad smurfing is to a game. There are also many smurfs on the 1v1 ladder, just to bash noobs. So smurfing ruining things isnt a new thing to the game.
The difficulty is that no system is perfect and everything has pros and cons. The new rating is a big improvement over the old system. The calcultion made sense to me. To remedy smurfing i suggest two changes:
-
The difference between the highest and lowest rated player into a ranked game, may not exceed a certain value. I would suggest something like 500. This way it isnt too restricted for most players, but it disencourage smurfing. The current abuse of the #1 player wont be possible any more.
-
I would suggest lower the total elo that is transfered into a game. If i look back at Voobly, a win will result in gaining about 16 elo (assuming balanced teams). That 16 elo is shared over all the players. As result people gain a much lower amount of elo for each win in team games. Now you will gain 16 elo for each player (assuming balanced teams). As result in a 4v4 your team gains 64 elo, while the other team is losing 64 elo. This way the ratings are much more stable and wont grow that quickly.
The current calculation isnt that bad. It is only exploitable by smurfs. It is also pretty much in line with the calculation at Voobly and HD. I dont really expect many other differences at other games that are using a elo system.
The big weakness of elo is that it is meant for 1v1 and needs to be adjusted to work for team games. There are other options as well, like Microsofts own TrueSkill rating system for example. Also something like Glicko-2 is a well known alternative for elo ratings. They are more suitable for team games as well.
I just tried to find info about the rating system of other games, but they are mainly not really well known (or i cant search). What i found was that CSGO uses an altered Glicko-2 system.
1 Like
Smurfing is probably not going to cause such a huge mess as the broken calculations did because smurfs tend to quickly rise through the ladder anyway.
1 Like
If the ladder is reset then smurfs will rise to their true Elo even faster with better balanced teams won’t be so bad of an issue I think
Simply resetting won’t fix the issue with the smurfs. When people are at the top they will just make new smurfs and then we have the same Problem again. Boosting ur elo with smurfs is now even easier than before.
In another thread, someone already suggested a formula that could fix this issue. Instead of the classical average, we suggested another formula, that could fix this.
With this formula, the rating of the strongest player will have more impact on the rating on the team, and this procedure will have much less success.
1 Like
Not so quickly if every player in the team get the same number of points 11. To prevent this, point should be distributed according to team players ELO.
1 Like
i still dont think every player should get/lose the same amount of points for a win/ lose. The lowest player should still get more /lose less points for a win or lose but at the end both teams should of course lose/gain the same amount of points.
1 Like
I disagree.
i often play with friends, and we do not have the same lvl. If the better wins less and loses more, after some games we finish to have close ratings although we do not have the same level … if we change teammates, it causes unbalance …
5 Likes
Well if you dont do it there is no way that u will prevent eloboosting. If sb with 3k teamelo plays with a 1k smurf and they get matched every game with a 2k team…how do u fix this if they both get the same amound of points? The only options would be then that they get nearly 0 points both for a win, they get a good amount of points which would lead to an inflation at the top or they only get matched with players at the level of the topplayer.
If the skill gap between you and your friends is too high its maybe smarter to play normal/lobby games anyway.
there is a way (please read my previous post)
1 Like
This could be fixed by setting a limit to the maximum elo difference between party members. Something like "only allowed to queue with teammates who are 500 elo above you or below you. Ofcourse first some kind of hard elo reset is needed to normalize stuff and have the ladder be from 1k to 2k5 instead of from 1k to 4k or whatever.
1 Like
it’s good that finally someone here are with me, few months ago when I raised out about the problems on smurfs, those cowards not even admit they are ruining the game.
Would love to hear your suggestions for fighting smurfs since most AAA games have not been able to do this so far (without making ridiculous concessions on accessibility, or worsening the problem).
For example, let’s take the last suggestion in the thread, by introducing the 500 Elo difference means now I can probably no longer play with my friends (who are up to 800 Elo behind me and I don’t see it as a problem, the matches we play together are balanced, we have ~54% winrate). So now I have to throw games to be able to play with them again, or create a smurf myself. Congrats, you created even more smurfs.
1 Like