Serbian Kingdom then
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my main concern is how long are they not under the Byzantine Empire??
itâs confusing but if u can clear it up it will be fine
The only civ thatâs worth to be added from here are the Byzantines
Why not Defending America? 
becayse you always win in campaigns
âThe Iberian Union was the dynastic union of the Kingdom of Spain and the Kingdom of Portugal under the Spanish Crownâ
under the Spanish Crown
Both the kingdom of Germany and Italy were united within the HRE as thats literally why the country got the name.
This is not about culture, never said anything about that. We were talking about that Portugal and Spain never united, which the Iberian union clearly was when looking at the fricking definition of united. Doesnt matter they have more autonemy, its still a union in which they were united. The US is united, but every state has still their own laws. Same for portugal and spain within the Iberian union.
That has nothing to do with being united. You are talking about culture here what has nothing to do with the discussion or saying Portugal and Spain never united. We are not speaking of culturally united.
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A dynastic union is a type of federation with only two different states that are governed under the same dynasty, with their boundaries, their laws, and their interests remaining distinct from each other.
There you go the Iberian Union.
Like Jonoli is trying to explain, when Spain tried to replace this, and actually make Portugal part of Spain, the Restoration happened (long story short).
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Still united. A personal union is still a situation were two or more states are united through the king or monarch in general.
The word union literaly means in ecclestrial Latin unity. Of which unity is linked with being united.
United doesnt mean every state is government by the central authority.
Germany has bundeslandes with their own presidents, US has their own states with authority, there are more of these states. They are united while still having local institution with autonomy.
Heck before ww1 the German Empire was united when in reality the kingdom of Bavaria still existed, still had a monarch, its own laws, its own military etc. And yet we speak of a unified Germany dont we?
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Theres nothing more to this. You want to justify not having Portugal, and instead just it being part of Spain, when in fact it would be wrong.
Its like just having England and removing France since King Henry II (England) was crowned King of France on 16 December 1431. Its just absurd. (and this one was a personal union)
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I never stated I want Portugal representated within Spain (I rather not have Portugal as we get limited civs and 1 Iberian civ if we get one at all is more the enough)
The guy I responded to said Portugal and Spain were never united, when the Iberian Union is them literally being united.
You can say what you want but its simply fact. Doesnt matter they enjoyed large autonomy, doesnt matter. It just doesnt matter, united it was united it will always be for those years in history.
And yes France and England were united at points in history as well, but again I am here discussing history and I never requested them to be represented as one.
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Well I rather not have Spain. An Mesoamerican Campaign vs Natives? not very interesting.
I rather have Portugal In Asia vs the proper Empires of the time.
Yes they were united, and what you are failing to understand is that they were never assimilated, like the rest of the territories in Spain. Culturally they remained Portugal, and thatâs another fact that wont change.
Its clear that we wont agree on this, so i wont bother to continue this discussion.
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What do we disagree on then?
Never said they became Spanish. As thats what you said assimilation, not uniting what we were speaking of in terms of Portugal (not Portugueze) and Spain (not Spanish)
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We are disagreeing on the Portuguese representation on the game.
You feel like Portugal should not be in, while I disagree with you.
I feel like you are using the Iberian Union to justify the exclusion of Portugal, which like my England/France example shows, its absurd, using a 60 year time gap from 1580 to 1640 to justify it.
What Iâm doing is showing despite the Iberian Union Portugal very much remained the same, a distinct crown, unlike the other territories in current Spain.
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I dont really care if its Spain or Portugal. When looking at medieval age and reconquista Leon-Castille seems to be the more important Iberian country to me. Portugal was very important in trade internationally, but thats a bit later in the AoE IV timeline.
I now am saying this for the second time, I did not state to represent both in the union, its really late for the AoE timeframe. It was a pure historical discussion if they were ever united. I want them to represent as many people as possible, but seeing they are limiting the civs its going to be harder.
Countries like the HRE represent about 8+ people groups. A country like Spain would have potential to represent Leon, Castille, Aragon, Catalan, basque (if done right).
Portugal and Navarra were also relatively autonomus crowns within Spain. Aragon kept its own council for a really long time and also rebelled against Spain in history. Even in current Spain peoples like the Basque and Catalan still want independence. They still have a distinct culture and pretty distinct within Spain.
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I disagree. You are ignoring the Portuguese Reconquista and Neo Reconquista when they took the fight to North Africa, paving way to a huge change in the world geopolitical landscape.
When Spain finished Reconquista in 1492, Portugal already had found the way to the Indian Ocean.
Within. Like I shown there are several types of unions. We are just discussing semantics now.
Great, but in no way whatsoever that should not be used against Portugal inclusion in the game.
In an Age of Empires game, not having the First GLOBAL Empire, which its formation sits well within the game timeframe, itâs just not right.
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I want all of these civ, it will be dope more content, more options, more diverse.
I rather have a country representing 5 then a country representing 1.
We get limited civs.
What do you define as global?
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Though luck as we already got to hear we get limited civs.
Czechs dont understand Poles⊠The opposite is true, too, I guessâŠ
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