We all know Portuguese despite the change to -20% less gold for unit cost, is still one of the weakest units, specially in land battles. While in the water they have a good way, for land battles they are at the botton, specially with their old “botton neightbors” being buffed a lot (Khmer, Vietnamese, Teutons).
Giving the -20% gold cost only accentuates how the Organ Gun is population ineffective, while despite you being able to build 1 or 2 more (7%) at the same cost, the unit itself still won’t do much, only making your “lost units” number increase.
The Organ Gun needs a buff, for the minor it is. Even if it’s only about increasing their accuracy from 50% to 65%, or reducing their frame delay from 6 to 4, increasing their secondary bullets amount to 6 (unit has 7 barrels), or buffing their fire rate from 3.45 to 2.93 (15%). Even if it’s costs is increased from 56G now to 60G a month ago.
It’s an unit with awesome potential (one of the only 2 unique siege units) that is not being properly used.
I have played with and against portu deathball (organ guns + bbc) and dont think organs need a buff at all
Ports buff is good, no need to do anything else.
OGs are now cost-effective, and you get cheaper Arbs and decently costed Cavaliers and Champions.
Not to mention what could be the best BBC in the game, with 20% less Gold and Arquebus (only contender is Turk BBC with Artillery).
It really doesn’t need a buff. I once won a very competitive game vs an equal skill friend (1700+ hd at the time) vs slavs with a modest population of organ guns, halbs, and a few monks and hand cannons. Things are ridiculous once you get more than a handful and can snipe mangos in castle age, and not evn talking about elite. once you get 12+ it’s harder than trying to kill scorpion deathball. Portuguese are amazing on land, probably stronger than Italians (jury’s still out on pavise condottieros but I think halberd option is better). Full upgrade cavalier, arbalest, gunpowder, great infantry, skirmishers; organ guns can be paired with halbs for a typical comp, or skirmishers against ranged units and work out well either way
Organ Guns are useless.
4 gold changed nothing
They snipe Siege Onagers, and in enough numbers, break even Frank Paladins.
4 Gold less is a lot, for a unit you will easily train 12 or more of.
They don’t break Frank Paladins and they are useless vs Onagers
So for a unit to not be useless it has to be good against the strongest units in the game?
What logic is this? They’re not a main composition unit, you’re supposed to pair them with halbs (so they aren’t countered by cavalry) and bombard cannons (so they aren’t countered by onagers/or with your own mangonels in castle age, but organ guns can already snipe mangonels)
Very true. Orjan Guns need something more. More spread damage, you know, to actually do what they were designed for?
I still think that Arquebus allowing Organ Guns at Siege Workshop is the last thing that they need.
Organ Guns
- Affected by Carracks
- Minimum Range removed
- Elite Organ Guns +2 secondary bolts
- Arquebus -300F
The new discount also opens new tactics for the Portuguese early game with a sneaky Drush, or M@A if delaying Loom, because they don’t need to collect gold and so there are fewer tells the opponent can use to guess what the Portuguese player is going for (i.e. one on gold with no Mining Camp, 2 on gold with a Mining Camp.) The gold discount applying to every unit also means it’s easier to have a mixed gold unit composition, which is usually frowned upon for other civs because of the gold cost. And the Portuguese should definitely have one of the better Siege/Monk pushes, because of the gold discount and Portuguese Monks missing only Illumination. I’ll wait a while before saying the new gold discount isn’t enough.
Carracks are ships, not has sense make it affect Organ Guns.
then give them free +1/1 armor
5% increased discount changes them from literally THE WORST win rate to amazing? 
wow
Porto certainly isn’t as bad as it used to be, but certainly not amazing by any stretch…
People talking about death balls and essentially great imperial compositions, while in reality they’re usually wiped out before then or simply out eco’d
How’s that death ball work when you need multiple castles bros? Or we only talking closed maps?
What do expect? He is part of the " Khmer too op" team.
The buff is considerably interesting, 1/3 more.
Now Portuguese are in a perfect spot imo. They can hold with everyone. Clearly not top tier on arabia 1v1, but very solid, especially in late imp. Very good on water and closed maps.
This change puts them miles ahead to Italians now.
A further Portuguese buff, however, would not make them OP, considering we accept other strong civs like messo or Chinese
4 Gold is nothing!!
4 Gold will give you 1 Organ gun shooting 1 more salvo after the previous 12 died…
Not on Water it didn’t.
A sneaky Drush? How good will it be?? Saving 1g per unit? Will your Drush be 10 units? Otherwise it will help nothing…> Blockquote