Portuguese Buff not enough by far (land)

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Proposal for Feitoria:

  • Do not cost pop space
  • Nerf the base income rate
  • You can get more income by garrisoning villagers inside
  • Fully garrisoned Fetorias will generate more resources than the current one, but an empty one will generate a lot less (or none.)

This way the Portuguese still have the same incentive to boom and keep their villagers alive as everyone else. The Fetoria is a strategic substitute for trade or exploring the map to find new resources, but you still have to defend them and have the potential to lose villagers if they go down.

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with the new buff, Portos have become even stronger on closed maps. Organ guns literally costing less than knights. 80 gold monks, 160 gold trebs and the fact organ guns are insanely strong when massed. combined with the fact that theyre a wood/gold UU in which you dont need to go ham on booming, you could even go 1tc eco and get away with it. If you go 2 feitoria in imp, not only does that give you a small boost to your 1 tc eco, it just lets you play like hoang and get away with it. The 20% gold reduction synergizes well with the almost complete monk line. The fact that organ guns are really strong when massed which is easier now since they cost 56 gold. and deā€™s feitoria rates being buffed from the start.

couple that with a great tech tree for castle and imp.

on open maps, you dont even need to mine gold for the drush, their archer opening can also potentially be strong as you dont need as much gold as before.

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ā– ā– ā– ā–  I recently watch a pro game and they statet that Organ Guns are OP since they are cheaper and thy ve been already strong before the buff.
Donā€™t understand why Portuguese lose so many Games.

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organ guns are strong but expensive and really Only good in cadtle age. They die horribly to paladins or mass hussars in lategame or siege onagers wipe the floor with them.

If you got good micro you can use BBC against SO and siege rams but for the average bad player a sudden SO shot can ruin you.

Siege rams are the bane of Portuguese. They donā€™t have any FU meele unit. Even thought their units are cheaper, they are just not strong and get pushed back.

Since they got not a single good combat bonus (arqebus isnā€™t really great other than for BBC). Only their archers are even FU.

There real strength is out lasting the enemy with the gold discount but until then they often lose fights due to generally weaker millitary units (except organ guns but see points above for that) so the ports often get pushed off the map and their early game has nothing going for them either.

Portuguese are bad early game and arenā€™t overwhelmingly strong in imperial age. A jack of all trades, good for nothing approach doesnā€™t work in aoe2. It is better to have super cheap cav (berbers) or super cheap archers (mayans) and use the bonus to its fullest then get a mediocre mix of these.

You can either try to be a weak berbers or weak mayan, or the ports tries to go both, needs so many upgrades and just loss to the enemy focusing on the one thing they are great at.

The best ports have is propably their monks mangonel push working really well for them. But a civ with a proper eco bonus helping earlier would be almost as good and more flexible.

I would argue that Portuguese need to be better at imp to off set that they are so bad early game somewhat. So an aquebus buff, hc buff and elite organ guns +1 range or more aoe.

Or feitorias changed into a proper imp eco bonus (no Pop cost but limited by fix amount like cuman tc in feudal)

If we buff their eco ealry game slightly , then we end up with a civ that is Stil not amazing early game and still not great in imp (Jack of all trade problem and not much FU, mongol deathball kills them easily for example).

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65

The real problem with portuguese is the bonuses they have on land

They basicly have only 1 real civilization bonus, the gold discount.

Team bonus, first unique technology, ships +10% HP all useless on land. They only have 2 things to go for them except the gold discount bonus, feitoria and arquebus. both of them coming in in late imperial (or early imp in very specific maps).

Summing up, Portuguese are literally a civ that has 0 speciality only a gold discount which gives them 0 identity. Their UU is the only thing which makes them portuguese-like but it is kinda weak.

First I would give them a new civilization bonus which is not a jack of all trades bonus and then consider adjusting some stats for their UTs UUs etc. They probably need some military bonuses

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66

First, I would give them squires. Organ guns are not immortal anymore, so they should be able to protect them with squires.

Then, I will give them some military bonus, probably something for their archery range unit/archers/hand canonniers
(problem is a lot of bonus for archers are already taken. And Portuguese already have several bonuses for gunpowder). Maybe faster mooving cannons and hand canonniers?

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67

How about halved frame delay for arabalest and hand cannons as civ bonus?

Or Hand cannons deal another 4 bonus damage against siege units and buildings.

Aquebus is a bit overprized for what it does, and itā€™s the civs only military bonus currently. It could be buffed again to its prenerf state (expect for BBC) or made cheaper.

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That would be too strong.
Ports need nothing else, they are now competitively viable, even though all that changed was the Discount increase,.

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Would it be thought? Jannisary have zero frame delay. Halve frame delay on hc should be fine.

I agree that halved frame delay on archer line would be strong.

A strong bonus that can compete with Briton or Ethiopians. It would be really good bonus in feudal ones archers are massed and in Castle age.

In imp the Britons and Ethiopian bonuses are surely better but ports got a discount so in total the civ would finally rise up as a top archer civs together with mayans, brits, Ethiopians. And it would do so in a complete new and fun to micro way.

I hope aoe stats releases soon so we can have meaningful discussions again. At the moment nobody n knows if the buffed weak civs from last patch are still trash or not.

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But Ports are not just an Archer civ. They also have discounted Monks, Knights and Siege.

Ethiopians and Britons need their Archers to be outstanding, because they have little else going on for them, while Ports have a lot of units with a discount.

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Better to increase their accuracy like 5% (maybe only for HC). This way, arquebus would have higher impact.

Also, maybe the problem is that HC and bombard towers are underwhelming. Maybe a buff of those units for all civs will solve lots of problems of late game focused civs

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bruh. siege would like a word with you.

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cuz people donā€™t hate archer micro enough as is right now.

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Yes, Ethiopians have good Siege too, but Ports have the best BBC to snipe Siege with, and it is also discounted.

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@JonOli12, have you played much with Ports recently? Was it fun?

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I just had a game ports against Italians today and that hussars GC combo is a ā– ā– ā– ā–  to deal with as Portuguese in any cost efficient way.

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It is very fun, I just Archer Rush all day with them, and then go for either Knight + Crossbow, or Monk+ Mangonel in the Castle Age.

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78

Sounds like just spamming halbs+skirms should beat this combo, but you can also replace skirms with organ guns as they have good pierce armour.

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Halb + organ guns beat that easily, GC are outranged

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Iā€™m still waiting to see how the patch will affect those stats: https://aoestats.io/civ/Portuguese/RM_1v1/1250-1650

Negative winrate even on Islands, Continental, Balticā€¦ lol

One buff I think that would fit the Portuguese is ā€œFree Ballisticsā€.
It would be a very good buff for early Castle Age and would also fit the civ concept because Ballistics and Arquebus are similar techs.
(If this buff become too OP then reduce the Gold discount for units back to 15% in Feudal/Castle Age and they get 20% only on Imperial Age.)

1 Like