Possible solution for Khmer farming bonus?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
41

I don’t get the proclamation that Khmer should be more vulnerable to raids, specifically because it’s clearly a design intent that the Khmer should be very raid resistant with the house garrison option.

The idea that we’d change the way the food is dropped off to change this i) doesn’t make sense for the design of the civ and ii) doesn’t actually solve the problem you claim they have.

The Khmer don’t need any changes. They are particularly weak to strong siege since they just had BBC stripped from their tech tree in the last patch, and I thought that was totally unnecessary. It’s a pretty painful exclusion. Celts, Teutons, and Koreans practically handle the Khmer.

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42

I Mean i wont deny it that it would weaken them but thats why i also suggested a compensation in Castle age for example and they could still survive tho

43

Well i try to tackle them with a good hit in the stomach wouldt say i go for their throat since the pain metaphoricly goes away in castle age

44

This is such a bad idea. Why would you remove the only tech that allows your vills to no get slaughtered even by a standard militia or a wolf ffs.

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45

wth are you talking about, they’d be dead the second anything makes his way into their eco.

  • 4 archers? Dead
  • a drush? Dead
  • m@a? Dead
  • scouts? Dead
  • towers? YOU CAN’T EVEN TOWER FIGHT WITHOUT LOOM

It looks like some of the people proposing buffs and nerfs don’t even play the game

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46

i do play the game tho just saying that i can admit might not be the right choice just something that weakens them early as they can retain their mid to late game

47

There is obviously another solution i just think that their early should be weakend

48

Agreed i just think current game meta doesnt allow too much early agression vs khmer in team game for example

49

Even die to skirms and lose to spearmen

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50

Guys, removing loom is clearly not possible.

However Khmer have got a game breaking buff with their farmers. Now they may be a S civ: if so a nerf should be deserved by definition, despite mayans, Aztecs, and chinese should be nerfed as well.

Imo, no need to nerf Khmer if you do not nerf the other top civs before.

For people asking for the nerf: why don’t we come back to their old tech tree? I am not 100% sure, but maybe they were missing hussars, arbs, and probably something more…

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51

no arbs no hussars no faith

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52

Why does a s-tier civ (and it’s detable if khmer belong here, some pro players think so others do not) need a nerf by definition? Also you had to nerf vikings and slav then because they have similarly strong (if not stronger) eco and probably also Britons because their combination of great units and very good eco amounts to an equal power. Don’t see the reason why like 25% of the civs should be nerfed. Just keep buffing other civs in small steps. This has proven as a approach to balancing.

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53

Better boom means better eco which mean more units or better upgrades.
If done right, they can have the best boom.

If you leave the boom and get castle age and then get a stable (with the build you could go siege push) and a few knights, the enemy can’t do anything with feudal age units.

54

That is what I prefer and why imo it makes no sense to nerf Khmer and letting Chinese or Aztecs as they are.

Also nerfing top civs do not fix the problem of weak civs…

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55

Leave Khmer alone. They went from terrible to solid, no need to go back.

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56

Thank your for that explanation, that was new to me! Jokes aside, I can just repeat myself but you need to put that into context. Which maps are talking about? Go fc on arabia and then knights and siege? Very susceptible to feudal age aggression because you no army for a very long time which is why you rarely see fc knights above a certain level. On arena? Knights usually not the greatest option. You rather go for the boom which is indeed strong but then Khmer don’t have the best unit compositions for this map. The only map I can think of where Khmer might (!) be the best civ is hideout but even here the lack of bbc hurts a lot.

57

I agree but just look at this thread full of proposed drastical changes and angry people.


Funny thing is AOEZONE is kinda more dramatic.
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58

on the subject of the overblown AOEzone crymplaint thread:

It is my humble, well-informed opinion that the Malay are legit better in every practical way for using Elephs than Khmer. Yes, Khmer have faster elephs with all the upgrades, and extra attack to boot. Yes, that makes them more pop efficient, and more powerful individually.

You know what the Khmer don’t get? Bombard cannons. Do you know what kills massed elephants the best? Siege. I mean, unless you’re gonna convert the elephants, which is a good idea, you’ll need to kill them, and Siege does that the best of any unit. Bombard cannons are the best practical answer to Siege defenses against elephants because you don’t have to worry about terrain and you don’t have to commit units into a halb line attempting to kill the siege. Malay gets bombard cannon.

And yes, Khmer get fully upgraded Hussar for running down siege, which works, but the way you’d use it, it’s not only a one-way unit, but an expensive one as well as you’re already going to be stretched heavily with Elephant production, since it’s extremely food heavy.

Now, let me address all the problems of the Malay Elephant for you, so that you’ll realize just how absurd the unit actually is:

  • It’s lacking the second and third armor tech, meaning +1 / +1 armor is all it gets for the whole game.

A necessary downside. I’d like to point out that this unit costs about twice the resources to make as a champion, and for that cost has over four times the HP with the same pierce armor. They have nearly the same movement speed, the elephant wins in both attack, and damage to buildings (+10 vs +6 after arson) over the champion. The Elephant is not a cavalry replacement. It’s a Champion replacement.

  • Halbs

Arbalests. Malay get fully upgraded arbalests.

  • Use archers and abuse the low pierce armor

Have you ever tried killing a Viking flood with archers? How’d that work out for you. This unit has more than four times that amount of HP with the exact same pierce armor statistic. Archers may work fine against low numbers of elephs, but against a mass, good luck.

  • Siege

Malay get Bombard cannons.
Khmer do not.

  • Monks

The only civ that gets both Heresy and an elephant unit is the Malay. Doesn’t really matter though, when you’re backing it up with arbalests, you can kill individual units with a good number of arbs. Mass monks with AI level micro is certainly a danger against Elephants, but that’s going to be the case regardless of what civ you’re playing as.

Seriously though, that AOEzone thread is off the deep end. Some people should not ever be put in charge of balance.

59

On AoEzone tend to write a lot of more high elo players. At the 24++ tg mark Khmer with their eles are a very big problem

60

No they don’t dude, especially when you are taling tgs. Khmer as a pocket are way better than malays, especially considering that you’ll be fighting with no bloodlines no +2 armor eles against bloodlines and +2 armor eles. In a situation where a Malay pocket with his flank fights against a Khmer pocket with his flank it’s not even close. So much for a well-informed opinion 11

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