Trebuchets have some weird behaviour when a group of trebuchets are controlled. When a right-click attack command is issued to a group of unpacked trebuchets and not all of these unpacked trebuchets have the target within their firing range, some weird behaviour will occur.
Reproduction Steps:
Unpack a group of trebuchets in a manner where a target is within range for some of the trebuchets, out of range for others
Issue a right-click attack command at the target
ALL thebuchets will start packing
Trebuchets which initially had the target within their range will pack and then sit idle
Trebuchets which did not have the target in range, will pack and unpack within the target range (they do not seemingly start attacking the issued target though, just unpack within the range)
Expected behaviour
Trebuchets which have the issued target within their initial range will start firing the target and never start packing
Trebuchets for which the target was out of range for, will pack, move within the target range, unpack, and start attacking the issued target
Can confirm this for the latest patch as well (version 101.101.32911.0 4395365) running the Steam version.
Actually tested this thoroughly taking unit stances into account. There are 2 possible unit stances for trebuchets; āAggressiveā (this is the default) and āNo Attackā. Letās say we issue a right-click attack on an enemy target.
[1 - POTENTIAL BUG] Packed trebuchets within range of the target will unpack on the spot regardless of their unit stance, but once unpacked, only trebuchets set on āAggressiveā will actually fire! Trebuchets set to āNo Attackā will not start firing unless you issue another right-click attack on the target. Not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior but it was consistent in all of my tests.
Similarly, packed trebuchets outside firing range will always move in range and unpack, with only āAggressiveā trebuchets actually firing, and unpacked trebuchets outside firing range will pack, move in range and unpack, once again with only āAggressiveā trebuchets actually firing.
[2 - BUG] If some trebuchets are within range while others out of range, then behavior is consistent with the above if they are all packed. However if the trebuchets that are in range happen to be unpacked, they will always pack and stay idle, while the ones out of range will always behave as described in [1].
[3 - BUG] Different kind of thing, but still on trebuchets, so Iāll mention it in this thread. Double clicking trebuchets doesnāt select all of them if some are packed and others are unpacked (or even if some are in the process of packing/unpacking). For some reason the game doesnāt seem to recognise them as the same unit, but as 2 types, either packed trebuchets, or unpacked/packing/unpacking trebuchets (unpacked = already unpacked, unpacking = in the process of packing).
Specifically, if you double click on a packed trebuchet, only packed trebuchets will be selected. If you double click on an unpacked trebuchet, unpacked AND packing/unpacking trebuchets will be selected. So the game thinks packed trebuchets are different to unpacked/packing/unpacking trebuchets. The intended behaviour should be that all trebs should be selected no matter their current mode (packed, unpacked, packing, unpacking).
As far as I know, 1-Bug and 3-Bug are the same as the trebuchet behaviour in the HD version, so Iām not sure, if this really is a ānewā bug. 3-Bug can be annoying, however, I kind of got used to this strange behaviour and always double click on packed and unpacked once while holding down shiftā¦ this is not a real solution, I know.
2-Bug sure is a bug and I canāt imagine that this is an intended behaviour. Might be solved with one of the next patches.
However: I really donāt like the behaviour of trebuchets automatically packing and moving to a target if you place an attack command to ta target out of range. This automatic behaviour might be usefull if youāre attacking; if you use trebuchets for defense, you definitley donāt want that. Really annoying, especially together with 2-Bugā¦
Yes, I am also not a big fan of automatic packing. It often happens, that I want to check, whether trebuchet can attack enemy building, but if it is out of range, then I want trebuchet to continue destroying buildings which are currently in range and only later move larger distance forward to attack several enemy buildings with one packing-unpacking cycle.
Currently I have to constantly press āstopā in order to stop trebuchet from automatically packing, unless I want it to pack-unpack just for moving 1-2 tiles forward for one building.
There was a very popular suggestion in beta forums, that when unpacked trebuchet is selected, then it should should show specific cursor for out of range target. This would allow to easily know, whether trebuchet can attack target immediately or does it need to pack. I think, that this cursor should have appearance of sword + packing trebuchet, representing that selected trebuchet needs to pack. This cursor should also be displayed, if other units are selected along with out of range unpacked trebuchet.
Also when trebuchet starts automatic packing for out of range target, then it should stop packing and start attacking when I right-click on in range target.
I think that this automatic packing feature is in the same boat as new health bars, new waypoint behavior and easy drag military. All these are changes to AOC/HD gameplay and should be toggleable in order to please everybody, including those used to old behaviors. Cysion has said, that QOL changes will be toggleable and automatic trebuchet packing should also be toggleable like those other changes.
Option might be called āUnpacked trebuchet behavior when ordered to attack out of rangeā and have values:
Do nothing
Pack and attack automatically
Pack and attack automatically when double-right-clicked
In DE trubuchets now automatically pack if you tell them to attack a building outside their attack range. Then they move within range and unpack. However if I have multiple trebuchets and some of them are within range of the target and some of them are outside of it, then all trebuchets pack. Those that were outside the range, now move within range and unpack and attack as expected. However those inside the range pack unnecessarily and stand there without doing anything. The expected behaviour is that those trebuchets which are already within range of the target should not pack and shoot at it directly regardless of whether there are other trebuchets in the selection.
Reproduction Steps:
Create a few trebuchets. Send some of them within range of an enemy building and keep some of them outside of it.
Unpack all of them. The ones near the enemy buildings should be able to shoot.
With all of them selected, give a command to attack an enemy structure. All of them will pack.
Here 2 trebuchets are firing at the castle and two are not.
This bug is still present and very frustrating. Also, this is not āpotentially unwantedā behavior. this is a bug. clear as day. I suggest renaming the thread to reflect this.
Iāve noticed everyoneās descriptions are a bit long winded and confusing.
So to summarize:
When targeting an enemy unit/building with unpacked trebuchets; if ANY of the selected trebuchet are out of range of selected target, ALL trebuchet will pack and only the one outside of range will move, unpack and attack. attack stance makes no difference for this particular bug.
Easily reproducible. in my example I used the scenario editor but this happens in any game mode as far as I know.
Came here to report this myself.
This needs fixed, I lost an āarmyā of 20 trebs to a few onagers due to this nonsense.
Back trebs in range, Front trebs target is too close, ālets pack ALL the trebs selected so we die like moronsā.
Enemy moves away. Front trebs in range. Back trebs target is too far, ālets pack ALL the trebs and not attack anything like moronsā.
Ok, let me try to only select the ones in range, nope, still one out of range, which one is it, nope not that one, nope not that one, nope not that one, nope not that one, nope not that one, aaand im dead.
Uninstall.
it seems the devs arenāt really interested in fixing the plethora of problems STILL present in this game. hopefully this is due to focus on aoe4, and that aoe4 will be the saving grace. Though I hope for everything, I expect nothing.
Very well said. I have been playing all versions of AOE II starting from the original release in 1999 and this is the most annoying āfeatureā of AOK DE. I donāt want my trebs to auto-pack; any chance this will be made an option rather than a mandatory āfeatureā. Thank you.
Yeah, would like if auto pack feature would be optionable. Especially good would be to have mouse cursor automatically indicating whether trebuchet target is out of range.
When right-clicking on out-of-range target, then it should be possible to cancel unpacking and change target by right-clicking on in-range target. Instead I have to press āstopā. This is quite annoying and I prefer how trebuchets worked in AOC/HD.
@GMEvangelos Have developers considered making trebuchet automatic packing for out-of-range targets feature optionable, like many other QOL features? Or even better would be to get cursor for out-of-range targets
