Proposal for a new civilization. (Aoe 2 DE))

Some time ago I uploaded a proposal to include Aragon as a new civilization. With the release of the new DLCs that introduced the Sicilians, Burgundians and Poles, the departure of the Aragon crown as a civilization apart from the Spanish is more and more possible. The crown of Aragon, as an independent kingdom is comparable to Portugal and I believe that there is a difference both culturally and in the form of government that even after the unification with Castile kept this kingdom with a certain autonomy. So lets start:

New civilization: The Aragonese.

The crown of Aragon at its greatest extent:

At the height of its power in the 14th and 15th centuries, the Crown of Aragon was a thalassocracy controlling a large portion of present-day eastern Spain, parts of what is now southern France, and a Mediterranean “empire” which included the Balearic Islands , Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Southern Italy (from 1442) and parts of Greece (until 1388).

Proposal for a new campaign: The Great Catalan Company

The Great Catalan Company was a mercenary company led by Roger de Flor at the beginning of the 14th century AD. C. and hired by the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II Palaiologos to combat the growing power of the Ottoman Turks in Anatolia.

The history of the Catalan company is quite long and has many important events so Im not gonna talk about it.

After the break with the Byzantine Empire, the revenge of the Catalan Company was unleashed by devastating Thrace and Macedonia, culminating in the conquest of the Duchy of Athens and the annexation of the Duchy of Neopatria, an occupation that lasted until 1390.

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Roger de Flor is received by the Byzantine emperor.

Civilization overview:

Naval and infantry civilization.

Wonder:
descarga (2)
Veruela Monastery.

Unique units:
The almogavar: light infantry, fast and with the ability to throw a spear. (similar to the costilieur but ranged).

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Bonuses:
-Can research war galley in feudal age with a 50% discount. (but they dont have access to fire ships, and WG have a damage debuff). This is because of the Aragonese naval supremacy in the Mediterranean.
-Demolition ships +25% attack.(to help with the lack of fire ships in early game).
-Barrack techs also affect villagers(arson, squires and supplies).
-Infatry armor free.(miss last armor upgrade).

Unique techs:
-(castle age)- Guerrilla tactics: archery range units move 15% faster. This is because of the high mobility of the aragonese army.
-(imperial age)- Mercenary companies: Military units, except siege weapons, return 45% of the cost in gold (if a unit costs 100 gold you get 45 gold back this doesnt work with wood or food). This is because the almogavars were dedicated to looting the shores of the Mediterranean Sea.

Team bonus: Ships slowly regenerate hp.

Tech tree:
-Archery range: all techs except cav archer, hand canoneer and parthian tactics.
-Barracks: all techs except eagle warrior.
-Stable: miss bloodlines,hussar, paladin, camel, elephant and steppe lancers.
-Siege workshop: full tech except siege onager.
-Dock: full tech except elite cannon galleon and fireship line.
-University: full techs except architecture, fortified wall and siege engineers.
-Blacksmith:full techs except the last cav armor upgrade, the last infantry armor upgrade and the last archer upgrade. As i mentioned the aragonese army was very light armoured.
-Monastery: full techs except theocracy and faith.
-Economy:all techs except hand cart, gold shaft mining and crop rotation.

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Source: Wikipedia

100% Pick or Ban on water maps
Another civ that has faster villagers (how quint)
Another European civ - again.
No eco bonus in feudal - no real imp powerhouse to compensate
Infantry won’t happen - even in 1v1
UU like Coustallier? What range? What charge damage? Whats the unit stats, cost? damage? Elite Upgrade cost?

Unique Tech cost?

Conclusion:
Dead by the time it reaches Imperial - where it falls off due to lack of armor
Imp UT is basically the Portuguese Gold discount (or is it on death?)
Such a weak civ without Hand Cart - hmm
Nice Maa rush, but else…
After Castle, you maaaybe get rolling with 35 food cost Villagers and Worse Berbers Vills Bonus Squires.

This civ is literally 2 different ones depending on whether being played on a water map or not. Water bonuses are way too huge and Land bonuses are too weak.

? just search it and google will show you the same map. This is real, believe it or not.

portuguese: All units cost -20% gold
• Technologies researched 30% faster
• Ships +10% HP
• Can build Feitoria in Imperial Age
• Carrack (Ships +1/+1 armor)
compared to this the bonuses I proposed arent that strong.

there are a lot of civs that have similar bonuses, this doesnt apply on dark age of feudal age, you need to research squires first(castle age).

Im doing a european civ bcos i know more about european history,that doesnt mean I want 30 european civs ingame.

militia rush gold back.

this civ can go archers and siege, its similar to celts. So ur saying celts arent viable?

its just an idea, i dont wanna spend 2 hours perfectly balancing the unit cost, armor, dmg,…

yes

it has cheap and faster vils, I need to balance with this, like celts missing last wood upgrade.

They have 15% faster Lumberjacks from dark to imp - that’s one of the best eco bonuses this game has

Im not talking about that you are taking things out of context.

Lol this is ridiculously OP.

I mean, italians already have it cheaper, and they are considered the best water civ. You also want for them to have unbeatable ships in feudal age, and basically have water control.

Even without fires ships, their war galleys would beat everything else.

So basically in feudal age they would have vills cheaper than the Indian ones already in feudal age. That’s too is super strong, and on top of that they move like berbers ones.

This is broken too…

Those are fine.

This is fine too, assuming that it’s not too much.

Yeah, even locked behind a castle, that it’s an incredible strong bonus.

I too in the past I suggested something similar, but I basically destroyed the whole tech tree to balance it out.

Maybe nerf it to 5% and it’s enaugh.

This on the countrary is really weak. You could make even 70%, since they have terrible cav, and no expensive units beside siege.

Also you shouldn’t lose units, so I personally would never research it unless I get extra resources.

Is it a ranged unit or a melee one?

Eh I think on land 35 food vills is a big advantage.

No need to remove the last infsntry armour 11.

The water bonus is OP. Is just waayyyy too big of an advantage in feudal. Also those archers seem way too fast

I mean the tech. Not 50% reduced the cost of each galley

Its a melee unit. But can throw a ranged attack each x seconds.

this includes ships so im not sure…

yeah but they miss the last armor so they are faster but weak.

War Gslley is just too big of an upgrade

I could be misinterpreting this, but I think it means in OP to instantly return some of the gold cost for each unit, as a one off bonus, but it could also easily be that when units die they return some of their gold cost.

this one. when one of ur units that cost gold die you get the gold.

Exactly, you get a tech an age earlier and it also cheaper. You would basically win any engagement in the feudal age, and you would outrage every other ship.

I don’t think that the game engine allows it…

It’s still weak, the main goal usually is to losing less units as you can.

In castle age though they are FU, and even with less armor they will still be a pain to deal with.

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they dont have decent cav so its not that bad, those archers are a weaker and slower version of CA. but easier to mass.

ok, some bonuses are weak and some are excellent, i preffer this than 4 op bonuses, you need to find a balance. The main goal of this bonus is that if you lose units its less painful than with other civs.

you can do it using triggers in the scenario editor and creating a mod so i dont think its impossible to add it ingame. I also though the coustilier thing was hard to do but there it is.

galleys are good if you mass them, but in early feudal age the first thing you do are fireships that counter galleys and are more pop efficient.
Its the same thing with burgundian cavaliers, do you think they are strong? they also get a cheaper upgrade, and bohemians hand cannons in castle age? getting the next age units is something that exists, nothing new.

Yeah but it’s not impossible to mass them. Fires are used just defensively, but if you get access to WG they can easily kill a feudal fire.

I mean, one of the best water civ doesn’t even have access to fires, so massing them isn’t that hard.

The burgundians cavalier is balanced out by the lack of bloodlines, and basically it becomes just a +2 attack. This isn’t the case for the galleys, which they they don’t have access to any upgrade in feudal.

Also, the early cavalier is more about being able to research paladin earlier, than having a strong unit an age earlier.

But HC in feudal are still easily countered by skirms and knights. WG in feudal wouldn’t have any counter, since both galleys and fires would die to them.

I mean, is widely known that water meta has way less depth than land meta. Being able to age up faster, or get techs faster is super important.

Yes, and it can be balanced, but not this, and not on water.

Even better is having 4 not weak, not OP bonuses.

In castle age they would be almost as fast as plumes. Considering how easy is to spam them, it can be really strong.

It all depends on the rest of the civ. If you plan on keeping the bonus that barracks upgrades affect vills, then it’s OP. If you plan to remove it, then probably not.

Burgundians don’t have bloodlines. So until they get cavalier researched not only are their knights inferior to other civs knights, but cavaliers only end up with an extra two attack.

What’s the downside to feudal war galley? Which btw because of the way rhe tech works also gives them fire ship and demo ship.

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Quite interesting proposal: I myself would not have imagined introducing Aragon as their own civ, since we already have Spanish civ already quite well representing the land might of the Castilians and the sea power of the Aragonese.

A few things I will critique:

Your castle age tech “Guerrilla Tactics” while is a part of Spanish history, is unfortunately a early 19th century term: from the Napoleonic Wars. While it is not to say that guerrilla-like tactics were used by the Aragonese against the Italians, Castilians, Moors, and other foes during the Medieval Ages, if you include the term in a videogame staged in the medieval-era, it would be anachronistic. The term “Guerrilla” was used by Napoleon’s Armies, and that by the British to define the small bands of Spanish freedom fighters fighting “little wars” against Napoleon’s occupation, in Spanish “guerrilla”

The removal of Handcart would break tradition, since every civilization gets it. It would likely hurt an Aragon civ in the late game pretty hard.

For your civ bonus of “all Military units return 45% of their cost”, I would also include ships in the exception, because having Aragonese ships regen health AND return part of their cost would make the civ very VERY powerful on water maps. Plus, they are bonuses that are in opposition of each other: you retreat your navy back to self-heal, but if your ships die they give back a portion of their cost?? It should be one or the other; NOT BOTH.

Also: having ship slowly regenerate HP would make a team with Aragon as an ally too powerful, unless the opposing team is featuring the best naval civs.

What I praise:
I love that you are really passionate about the Kingdom of Aragon. They were surely the influential powerhouse of the Western Mediterranean, and in some ways do deserve their own civ. However, as I already pointed out: the already current Spanish civ already covers representation of both Kingdoms of Castile (and Leon) and Aragon with the Spanish tech tree being well balanced with land bonuses and sea bonuses.

MY FINAL THOUGHTS
AOE2 already has 39 civs, and I really think that that is enough. Maybe…maybe 2 more can be added. Methinks that Georgians (in the Caucus Mountains) are a more viable option, as well as another South Asian civ (i.e. Subcontinent “Indian” civ, so that Indians are not the only civ with the South Asian architecture style) can be added as Civ #40 and Civ #41, and be the last civs. But 39 civs is already a lot. (Maybe the devs will only add ONE more civ, and call it even at 40 civs in total)

But who knows? The devs could be reading your comments/posts as well as this very comment of mine, and it is up to them to decide what future DLCs in AOE2 will bring (if there will be any more DLCs).