I am a old Chinese player.I am Chinese.I like the PUP’s some remake.However,some I think op.
1:Chinese give additional Goat=50Food in first age,but in many Food treasure or Numerous prey.Maybe we can’t eat the Goat,and then it >50 Food.
So,I think remove the Goat,giving 50 Food in starting game.
2:Tea Export I think some op.It = free consulate+100Export+0.5Export/s.=400 resources.I think it can become free consulate+100Export+0.4Export/s
3:Age 3 card: 1 Flying Crow.It only 600resources…Could become 1Flying Crow +1 Flamethrower
4:Temple of Heaven change Impractical.Age 4 give three Rice Paddy???To be discussed
either consulate + trickle or consulate + 100 export
the trickle is worth anything up to 16 vils, its way too much
for the iron troops if we keep the rof thing(which is what makes it too strong) then remove all units shipped, even 7 is too much and maybe send 1 iron troops with every shipment after.
its the same as having 16 vils working that can’t be idled. its not the same as having 16 vils just gathering resources since they would also gather other resources but the rate itself but to even get that rate you need to have 16 vils working.
Granted export is not used for much but I think if we already have the consulate (which is the good part), either just get the 100 export or the trickle
Export card.In fact, in order to compete 3villager card.It’s normal to reach 400 resources.
op is export speed.Can weaken,but I don’t think can remove…
I think the consulate + 100 export is more enough, reason being that with the consulate you can get either the russian consulate (which now reduces vil cost by 10% and reduces train time) which worth a lot
or the French consulate which provides increased gather rate (5% to all, so the same as civil servants, worht about 150 resources) and now has an age 1 crate of 300 food, which really speeds up your age up time
I would like to add: The 100 Export delivered is what makes it possible to perform new ‘build orders’. Without it, for example, it would not be possible to ‘open’ with a Blockhouse or to get the German Food Trickle.
Hopefully the card will create new ways to play China early on (I personally like how it means the “Northern Refugees” card can be saved for use later on)
I do very much agree that it opens up a lot of possibilities for china though i just think that having all 3 of these effects in one card is probably too much
I think have only 2 of them, to me preferably consulate + 100 export or the other option is consulate + the trickle.
the export trickle might be better as a buff to the Sumptuary Laws card
I understand the idea and it’s cool, I see only one problem is that for a classic ff the redcoats will be trained much earlier and we can defend the ff very easily with it, it may be a litle too strong but we have to test I think for sure but yeah it’s an interesting shipment for sure
regarding some suggestion : I would not have removed 100f at mexico start because our age up time is quite correct, the - 100f will slow us down a lot and our age 2 army is expensive and long to train, the civ will be too slow now I think, I’d rather remove the 100c because the 100c can give a market huntings dogs tp and house if we manage to find some wood or coin treasure which in our current map pool is very common to find
with regard to the incas there have been good changes, but there remains the problem of the huaraca this unit is just impossible to kill because it has too much range and atk, it would be necessary to nerf the range atk and the problem is that it has the same range for siege atk, it’s a real problem and the 40 of atk or smth is just too much (to give an idea this unit is less expensive than abus but much more resistant and much more siege range and damage)
regarding the fort really I suggest limiting the garrison capacity of military units because 50 units jeez is too much it’s lame it’s just impossible to take a fight with an inca fort in the middle of the map so plz need to limit that at 10 or 15 really, I’m not exaggerating it’s just impossible to win against this fort, it’s not for nothing if the civ is hated by almost everyone and this fort is one of those reasons
I still have a ton of suggestions ngl but I’m just going to stick to this patch which is a very good patch overall I think but there are some changes that I think it would be very good for this patch
Maybe making the paddy technologies except for Mechanized Rice Cultivation and Collective Economy cheaper by 80% or free would be suitable. That would worth more than the 1200 wood for restricted use.
Personally I think it should be ok-ish, since sending the card is done as an alternative to sending Northern refugees, so china would be down the 2-3 vils that it would normally get and that should slow the ff-though probably not by much.
oh yeah ok I misread for the start mexico my bad, ok then i think should definetly remove 100c xD
concerning the incas, the real problem is not the eco or the number of vills that we have at the beginning or even the start that we have, the real problem is certain mechanics of the civ which makes it too strong , we can be slower than your opponent but if the units are not possible to kill and in addition we can put them in a fort which destroys everything afterwards it’s still too strong, with -100 f at the start I admit that the civ will be slower, it will be an age up at 4min30 and an ff at 7 min instead of 6min30, what will change in any case the civ will be played the same way as today and the ff is still too good because the huaracas are too strong and the fort allows you to garrison all units (even if the infinite huaraca shipment is removed), that’s why I would like to see a limit to this rather than trying to nerf the eco or the pop of kanchas or - 1 vills at the start, as I say the problem of inca is not really the eco, it is the fort and the huaracas sincerely
and I can assure you that if you nerf these 2 things about the incas the civ will be more appreciated less gimmicky and more balanced and people will be happy for sure, every time I ask someone what’s wrong in this civ the answer is always the same, it’s the fort and the huaracas
This is exactly right, I think that what you did is very clever because it taps into a potential that was there but couldn’t really be used before, and several new BO. I too like the idea of being able to ship NR later on and that it incentivizes the use of previously underused cards as well. I think China is going to be a strong civ but not OP, although people are gonna perceive it as OP because they are used to playing vs a weaker China.
The equivalence to 16 villagers is a false one, because the gather rate is so miniscule to begin with that to invest in a meaningful export trickle, always means that you are gonna see a ‘‘big number’’ in comparison.
If you decide to nerf it in the future, I would first evaluate changing/reverting some consulate technologies before doing anything to the card, since it’s an amazing concept. If you decide to touch the card nonetheless, I’d either lower the 100export and keep the trickle, or move the trickle to Sumptuary Laws while somewhat improving other resource trickles from that card as well.
if anything the 100 export helps cover the cost where you would formerly have to wait until 300 export was shipped, and then ally with brits (etc.) to get max value in specific consulate builds. now this sorta covers the deficit of an early alliance, giving you a bit more speed. it may be a bit too strong, but until we have some good pvp I wouldnt be to concerned yet.
