Purely hypothetical Ideas for new trash units

An infantry unit. Cheap, faster to train, good for harass. A kind of trash eagle warrior.

Feudal Age / Castle Age Upgrade (Elite)
HP: 35 / 45
Armor: MA 0 PA 1 / MA 0 PA 1
Attack: 4 / 7 (+2/+3 bonus vs Building)
ROF: 1.8
Speed: 1.15
Cost: 40 F 25 W
TT: 20 sec
Upgrade Cost: 200F 75G

Is affected by Supplies, Squires and Arson

Funny idea.
But i fear that this will make scrushes obsolete.
Also I don’t know what Gold unit it would synergizes with, it looks to me just like a solid standalone raiding unit.
And strong in trash wars also.

Maybe 4 attack is a little high for Feudal… 3 attack could work, because is -2 than scouts.

it’s actually more about the food cost, you could make basically 2 x as much of them as you can make scouts

I think the Problem with infantry is very complex. It took me also a while to bring the shieldman in a state where I think it is kind of balanced.
With infantry having so few usable counters especially gold efficient counters they have a very high risk of being completely broken with no or very low gold cost. And we must be very careful with designing them… at least how the game is currently designed.

Btw your design has very high similarity to the karambit actually.

After I finally made the Civilisation Hub complete I found some time to Start making the Mod I wanted to with these units.

The plan is to Make 5 civs now, but 2 of them are just edited old ones that can use an overhaul. It took me a long time to find the best civilisation fits for these units, but I think I found them:

Chariot/Ratha:

Bengalis (no-brainer)

Shieldman:

Swiss. Swiss were famous for their Infantry and though I don’t found evidence for a pure shieldman in their compositions, they actually used a lot of differently equipped Infantry to combine their individual strength. So the shieldman is just basically an analogy for the characteristics of the “Gewalthaufen”. Swiss also offer different things that can be very useful when designing a civ that is mostly built around infantry. Certain bonusses that make it (hopefully) viable.

Genitour:

Aragonese: Aragonese fought off the Berbers together with Castille. The current Spanish is mostly inspired by castille so I chose Aragonese which are also generally more fitting to the concept I have in mind, cause Aragonese were less focussed on heavy cavalry and instead used a lot of different Weaponry.

Lightbowman:

Songhai: Songhai give a good mix of Archer / Cavalry combination that fits the concept of the camel/lightbow combination I strive. It allows also to test one thing I always wanted and this is a civ without chemistry. Ofc they get a UT as replacement for their archer line, but all the other stuff doesn’t
gets it anymore.

The Civs that will be removed/changed to the new ones are: Burgundians, Sicilians and Poles. Because of their gimmicky techs.

Then I decided to add one more Unit. This is against Halb/Siege and for combination with Steppe Lancers. It is given to Cumans cause I need to remove cuman mercenaries to make space for swiss mercenaries and it gives me an excuse to remove the Cuman 2nd TC. Haha.
It is the Flamethrower, a weapon Cumans adopted from the Byzantines and used for a short time in their army for their famous sieges. Flamethrowers deal pierce-through damage like the Chakrams, but with way lower attack values. Instead they attack faster and have bonus against Spears, Siege and Wall/Gate. This should complement the Steppe lancers perfectly against all non-camel civs.
Against Camels I plan to adjust the Kipchak, removing the extra arrows, but giving bonus damage vs Camels, so it becomes a CA specialised for anti-camel. As Cumans miss Bracer this is viable in my opinion. For all other CA civs it would probably be too oppressive.

Name Flamethrower Elite Flamethrower
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 30 F, 60 W 30 F, 60 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1.15 1.15
ROF 0.75 0.75
Attack 4 Melee 5 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Spearmen 3 vs Spearmen
2 vs Siege 3 vs Siege
4 vs Wall and Gate 5 vs Wall and Gate
Range 4 4
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Armor, Chemistry Archer Armor, Chemistry
Upgrade Cost 100 s 600 G, 500 W
Special Pierce-through damage
Projectiles travel 2 Tiles longer than targeted

(I will most like revise this design cause the pierce-through damage stuff is hard to balance in theory and needs a lot of testing.)

Thanks to all the diligent Civ Concept designers for inspiring me.

Hope you know how to do datamodding. :wink:

As far as I can see datamodding isn’t so complicated.
The things I am concerned about are more:

Why doesn’t have steam a good version management system?
How do I get Models for the units? (I’m really bad in that, so I can’t make my own unit models)
Reading in all the weird stuff the devs implemented for workarounds that aren’t self-explanatory.
Where are the files to change?

For pubishing as far as I understand it I just pack all “changed files” into one single zip folder (just the files, no directories or whatever). But I will figure that out once I have done the mod.

It’s weird, there is no tutorial how to mod, why? I don’t think it’s so complicated, you just need to know where the stuff is you want to change. And ofc this banal stuff like “if you add a new unit you need to change the language file, too and ofc tell the editor where to look in the language file.”
Stuff you just need to “know”.

And for the beginning I mostly just copy stuff and then change individual values, this way I can gradually get an understanding what which value does and learn also the syntax “passively”. That’s generally how I approach when I try to learn new technical stuff and so far it worked just fine.

Then you would need to find someone willing to do it.

It’s not like that. You need your directory folder structure, if you make a datamod, it should be something like yourmod > resources > _common > dat. You then zip all of that, and you can upload it. If you want to do graphical changes, you need a second mod. If you want to do stuff relating to renaming units, you need to write a modded string file, which, depending on how much you are doing, will take a while to a very long time, and then you package that as a separate mod, with directions to install both. The string file is a subset of your graphics mod, going in the directory yourothermod > resources > en > strings > key-value. I’m pretty sure the reason you do it as two is because either A) something breaks if you do it as one, or B) because your string changes would only apply if you loaded something with the datamod.

You cant as the game uses 3d models rendered as image sequences.Best bet is to get someone who knows 3d modelling to replicate ingame units.

why is everybody only using metaspeech these days?
I remember in old times we had clear tutorials that just told you how things work directly.

What has changed?

I can’t tell you, I never did modding in the old days. I’m literally just giving you the directory paths you would need for a datamod and string file. The modded string file is something you write that controls the text for the units and buildings and techs ingame, such as their description and names.

OK, here is my first Civ Concept elaborated:

The Swiss

Infantry and Monk Civilisation

Background

The Swiss Eidgenossenschaft formed during the middle ages as a confederation of individual statelets. As they knew if they fought separated they would have had no chance against the oppressive lords, they formed an alliance but each “Kanton” kept a lot of independence. Opposed to many beliefs the Swiss actually fought also in a lot of inner conflicts, but when threatened from outside they recollected to fought it of together. The fighting Spirit of the Swiss was legendary, the land not very attractive and hard to occupy and hold. So it was only a question of time until foreign powers hired Swiss mercenaries to fight on their side.

The Swiss revolutionized Infantry Warfare with their concept of the “Gewalthaufen”. Instead of having individual corps armed with different weaponry for different utility, the Gewalthaufen consisted of different weaponry put together in one single battalion. This way it was armed for every opponent and combat situation. Some Soldiers who boosted the company with their fighting spirit and will to battle were paid double (“Doppelsoeldner”) to reflect their importance for the battalion. They would also be made responsible for retreats and losses and often fought on front and center. Who deserved to be paid double was usually determined by the soldier corps itself instead of the hiring Lords and countries.

Civilisation Bonusses

The Swiss had a very tough time whilst oppressed by the lords and robber knights and adapted with walling their settlements. They can build Stone Walls and Gates in Dark Age.

As they are used to the rocky Terrain of the alps, they can find nutritional ressources while working on that rocky terrain. They collect 25 % food while mining Stone.

In the Alps, there is never a shortage of Stone. The Swiss can collect 1/3 more Stone from Stone Piles.

As they are hardened by the rough terrain where you often had to camp on the open. All their foot soldiers need only 60 % population space. (includes archers, skirms and HC)

As they are used to mountain terrain, they developed strategies to fight uphill. Swiss units don’t receive any bonus damage from uphill.

The natural beauty of the Swiss landscape and their culture of freedom enticed the opponent soldiers to affiliate with them instead of fighting them. Swiss Monks slow down enemy units while converting.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Gewalthaufen (Swiss Mercenaries)

30 s, 1050 F, 450 G
Enables to build 10 free Doppelsoeldner in Team Castles. Doppelsoeldner trained this way need longer to train (30 s instead of 20). Can be researched Repeatedly.

This Tech reflects the Mercenary use of Swiss infantry from various external powers.

Imperial Age: Alpsaenger

75 s, 300 F, 100 G
Monks can heal multiple units at once (1 tile radius)

Nothing is more healing than the chant of angels from the sky.

Unique Units
Name Shieldman Elite Shieldman
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Produced at Barracks Barracks
Production Time 10 s 10 s
Production Cost 15 F, 10 W 15 F, 10 W
HP 50 60
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 4 4
Attack 1 1
Atk Bonus 2 vs Archers 2 vs Archers
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 100 s 300 G, 500 F
Special Consume only half Population space
Name Doppelsoeldner Elite Doppelsoeldner
Armor Class Infantry (+3) Infantry (+4)
Armor Class Unique Unit (+4) Unique Unit (+6)
Armor Class Monk (+2) Monk (+4)
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 45 F, 75 G 45 F, 75 G
HP 120 140
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 2 2
Attack 10 Melee 12 Melee
Atk Bonus 5 vs Infantry 8 vs Infantry
2 vs Standard Building 3 vs Standard Building
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 3 5
Pierce Armor 1 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 80 s 400 G, 1000 F
Special Regeneration (20 / min)
Can Heal nearby units (at half speed)
Tech Tree

Infantry: Full infantry Upgrades, no Eagle Warrior

Archers: No cavalry Archers and Parthian Tactics, but fully upgraded Archers, Skirms and Hand Cannoneers

Cavalry: Only access to light Cavalry and Cavalier. No Husbandry, Bloodlines and also missing the last armor Technology

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower, Onager and BBC, but no Siege Engineers

Monks: Full Monk Tech Tree

Defences: No Architecture, no Fortified Walls, no Hoardings. Also no Bombard Towers. But towers up to keep, heated shot and arrowslits. Also Treadmill Crane, Town Watch and Town Patrol.

'Economy/Trade: All economy techs available except Two-Man Saw

Water: Kinda bad, haven’t decided yet. Probably just missing all the Imp Techs (except heavy demo , dry dock and cannon galleon)

Team Bonus etc

Palisades have +2 / +1 Pierce Armor

Castle: Schloss Chilon

Wonder: Matterhorn (or Cathedral Notre Dame in Lausanne)

3818 - Riffelberg - Matterhorn viewed from Gornergratbahn.JPG

The Aragonese

Gunpowder and Naval Civilisation

Background

The Reconquista - Part 6 History of Aragon - YouTube

Civilisation Bonusses

Since the antique the Iberian Peninsula was known for their endurable Silver Mines. When Aragonese Villagers deplete a gold mine fully, they will construct a silver mine on top. The Silver mine can garrison one villager which will slowly generate Gold (at 10 g / minute).

The Aragones fielded a lot of different military and were capable of raising a strong army in little time to fight of the threats. All military units cost 8 less Food.

When not fighting the Aragonese gradually fortified their estates and armed protective defensive works. Towers and Castles deal + 3 damage from Castle age.

Whilst Aragones had a overall good Navy, they focused more on land expansion and a well-connected join of separated provinces. All non-combatant ships move 20 % faster.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Blanket Fire

60 s, 300 F, 200 F

With the rise of Gunpowder the Aragonese were the first to implement them as mass armament for their foot soldiers. Instead of aiming at individual targets, they aimed for the enemy foot battalions and inflicted massive damage. All ranged units deal full damage to all hit enemies. (Like Arambai)

(Note: In the overall changes I will change Hand Cannoneers so they have a better ROF but way lower accuracy.)

Imperial Age: Marriage Politics

150 s, 500 F, 800 G

Aragonese were like the Habsburgers masters in marrying into other kingdoms and duchies. This ofc always comes with a cost. Gold income of Silver Mines and Trade is increased by 30 %. All Aragonese allies get equal share of all Aragonese Gold income. (With 3 other team members Aragonese get only 25 % of their own gold income)

Unique Units
Name Jinete Elite Jinete
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Produced at Stable Stable
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 62 F, 40 W 62 F, 40 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1.45 1.45
ROF 1.8 1.8
Attack 2 Melee 2 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Cavalry 2 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 6 vs Cavalry Archer 7 vs Cavalry Archer
Range 6 7
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 2 4
Pierce Armor 1 1
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades, Ballsitics Cavalry Upgrades, Ballsitics
Upgrade Cost 90 s 400 G, 300 F
Special 2 minimum Range
Name Tercios Elite Tercios
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 12 s 12 s
Production Cost 42 F, 45 G 42 F, 45 G
HP 60 70
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 2.5 2.5
Attack 6 Melee 7 Melee
Atk Bonus 12 vs Cavalry 20 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 6 vs Camel 10 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 8 vs War Elephant 12 vs War Elephant
Range 2 2
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 3
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 135 s 800 G, 500 F
Tech Tree

Infantry: All upgrades except Champion and Halberdier.

Archery: No Elite Skirm, Heavy Cavalry Archers and Parthian Tactics, but fully upgraded Archers and Hand Cannoneers

Cavalry: Light Cavalry and Knights, but no Hussar or Cavalier. All other Cavalry Upgrades.

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower, Onager and BBC, Siege Engineers

Monks: Full Monk Tech Tree

Defences: All Defences available.

Economy/Trade: All Economy Techs except Heavy Plow and Crop Rotation

Water: Fully upgraded Trade, Fish, Galleys, Cannon Gallons and Demolition Ships, but no Fast Fire Ship.

Team Bonus etc

Corte available in Markets

Corte is a special kind of unit that can convert up to 5 allied units in the proximity. The Corte will be lost in the process. They can convert all units except kings and heroes.
The Cortes enable very unique teamplay tactics like enabling easier comebacks for almost defeated players and allowing pop capped players to share their overboom or military with their team members. It is potentially exploitable, therefore the 5 unit limitation.

Castle: Aljaferia

Wonder: Basilica del Pilar

Again also thx to the other Civ Crafters for inspiring me.

So a never ending supply of gold?

Also all your uu ideas seems like different versions of current units, half pop range on melee units self heal etc.

Correct, but the silver mines are easily destroyable and limited by the amount of gold piles on the map.

Actually I made a mistake with the aragonese design 11. I wanted to design a Civ that is dependent on Gold income and I gave them FU trash 11

Changes done.

What is wrong with using established patterns that work? I don’t want to make comletely gimmicky civs. Ofc each of the civs has it’s uniqueness, but I try to fit it in the existing game.
I think it’s good to have this kind of Balance.

Look at the Jinete, is this really so close to any other unit we have already? I think I made a very unique design without using any gimmicky stuff.

The Oasis

The Oasis is a unique Building available to the Songhai (from the start of the game). It is quite expensive (500 W, 100 G, 120 s), but gives a trickle of (90D/100F/110C/120Imp) Food per minute. The Oasis loses 750 HP per minute which is the exact amount a single Villager can repair it. It has 3000 HP and a size of 6x6 tiles, whilst units can stand everywhere except the inner 2x2 tiles. It can be garrisoned by up to 20 foot units and heals all allied units standing on its edifice as if they were Garrisoned. Garrisoned Villagers and ranged units can fire arrows from the inside. The whole 6x6 building also functions as a ressource drop-off like a Town Center for all allied Villagers.
The Oasis can’t train Villagers, but Goats instead. Each Goat needs 25 F and 15 s to produce.
The Oasis resists 40 % of bonus damage, but it’s extra arrows also deal no bonus damage.
The Oasis Arrows deal (4 D to 7 Imp) damage per shot and are affected by the archer attack upgrades, but the Oasis has only 4 Base Range (up to 4+3 when FU).

Explanation

Time to get creative. I first had the Idea of making a Building that can heall up the Camels and UU of Songhai, as the civ vill be quite reliant on these units and to keep them alive. There came the Oasis to mind. Then I thought “ok why not making it an eco building”? Ofc it should produce food, but not for free. So the Idea of the building losing Health so it needs to be repaired constantly. This way it is ensured you always pay for the food income. I designed it in a way it needs 62.5 W / min and 12.5 g / min. The food income is designed to be about equal with 5 farmers at the different ages.
But then came the additional problem that with this rate the Food / Wood ratio in imp would be terribly bad and the songhai would burn so fast through it, they would have a big disadvantage there. So I added the trainable Goats. With them the Building almost reaches the res Efficiency as Heavy Plow Farms if you constantly train sheep and eat them.
But you need a constant Gold income which the Songhai fortunately “kinda” have. But I don’t want to reach out too much about this, as it is also a very interesting mechanic.
Funnily I think a lot of the stuff I implemented here would not be viable if not for the repair requirement of the Oasis. Constant food income equal to 5 farmers, trainable goat for food, defensive/garrisonable building… All stuff that is normally balanced by restrictions like pop space, amount of wood on the map, stone on the map… But I think with the constant repair that occupies, depending on age about 4.5 => 3.5 Villagers constantly working on ressources or repairing it is balanced and a very unique implementation.
It gives a lot different tools, but it also needs a lot of attention to optimally utilize it. And if you don’t care, it will destroy itself. Hehe
(I “stole” a lot of mechanics from other creatives here in the forum, like the trainable Goat or healing. Unfortunately I read so much stuff I can’t remember who had the Ideas, but feel free to tell me…)

The 40 % reduced bonus damage is necessary as the Oasis has kinda low HP for it’s cost. If not for that, it will most likely be the primary target of the enemy agression and then more a pain than a useful tool.

The Songhai

Camel and Archer Civilisation

Background

The Songhai lived and prospered on the banks of the Niger river. For very long time in the Middle Ages this region was marked by constant political power changes. Phases of uncertainty, independency and subordination altered quickly. The great Songhai Empire was born in a succession crisis of the Mali Empire. The military leaders of Sulayman Dama and Sonni Ali conquered the prospering other Regions on the Niger banks. They used a conjecture of sheer military power, empowered by the mass raising in their subject states, raids from the riverside as well fear and brutality towards all who resisted.

Like the Mali Empire, the Songhai were dependent on the constant gold income from the Niger. This income made the region extremely attractive for traders. One of the most valuable and demanded products in the region were horses from European breeds. These often were sold at more than five times the Value as they were in Europe. These horses were often used in the warfare campaigns of the respective military leaders.

When the Niger river gold income decreased, one of the most infamous phases of human history began and the gold trade was replaced by slave trade. Among the trade routes reavers set their camps and regularly enslaved passing people, selling them to the slave traders.

Civilisation Bonusses

Gao was the center of the trans Saharan trade routes. Songhai start with a Camel scout and also can train Camel scouts from Feudal Age.

Camels were the most common form of mounts in the Songhai Empire. It was basically completely dependent on the big camel caravans. Camels deal (+1 F / +2 C / +3 Imp) damage.

The Songhai traditionally used a lot of Javelins in their armies. Skirmishers get +1 attack.

As the Songhai were completely dependent on the Saharan trade, they have access to their Unique Building, the Oasis. The Oasis has a lot of different utilities but needs to be constantly repaired as it otherwise will be devoured by the desert sand.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Terror Tactics

90 s, 350 F, 400 G

In their expansion period Songhai leaders knew no mercy. They raised army from their subjects and proceeded with terror and brutality against their opponents. They were also known for the usage of ship raids along the Niger river. Archer line and Galley line deal +2 Pierce Damage.

Imperial Age: Tuareg

90 s, 400 F, 500 G

With the decline of the Niger gold income, Songhai were forced to look for additional income. This is when the slave trade emerged and desert reavers appeared. Some of them were secretly supported by the authorities, others a plague for them. Therefor a game of cat-and-mouse arised which lead to only the fastest being fit enough.
Camels and Royal Guards move 15 % faster and yield 10 Gold for each killed enemy unit.

Unique Units
Name Lightbowman Elite Lightbowman
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 30 F, 20 W 30 F, 20 W
HP 20 25
Speed 1.2 1.2
ROF 2 2
Attack 3 Pierce 4 Pierce
Atk Bonus 5 vs Infantry 7 vs Infantry
Atk Bonus 5 vs Condottiero 7 vs Condottiero
Range 4 4
Accuracy 70% 8%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Upgrades Archer Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 180 s 500 G, 200 F
Name Royal Guard Elite Royal Guard
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 16 s 12 s
Production Cost 45 F, 80 G 45 F, 80 G
HP 160 220
Speed 1.3 1.3
ROF 1.8 1.8
Attack 9 Melee 11 Melee
Atk Bonus 16 vs Camel 24 vs Camel
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 1 1
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades Cavalry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 105 s 900 G, 700 F

Royal Guards are heavy experienced elite cavalry that have specialised in dealing with Camel forces. Royal Guards are very versatile but this versatility comes at the expense of a very high Gold cost.

Tech Tree

Infantry: Spear line only up to Pikeman. Militia line up to Long Swordsman, missing last armor tech.

Archers: All Archer units (Skirm/Archer/CA) and all upgrades except Chemistry.

Cavalry: FU Camels, Light Cav (no hussar) and Cavalier.

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower and Onager, no Siege Engineers

Monks: Herbal Medicine, Atonement, Heresy, Sanctity, Illumination and Theocracy

Defences: No Architecture, no Keep and Bombard Tower. Otherwise all Defensive Techs

Economy/Trade: All economy techs available except the stone Mining upgrades

Water: Missing Chemistry. Galleys up to Galleon, No Fast Fire and no Heavy Demolition Ship. No Shipwright.

Team Bonus etc

Team Bonus:
Livestock moves 30 % faster.

Castle:

Wonder:

1 Like

What about a Elephant that gather resources similar way to a villager
It would cost more food, it would gather slower than a villager but with more resource capacity
The idea comes from AoE Online

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I don’t think this will fit in any of my concepts here.
And I also thik this idea would lead to a lot of issues that would lead to the elephant vills having absurd designs just to “somehow fit them in”.
Thing is the current pop occupation of vills is actually very important for having interesting lategame situations and such a bonus can easily break that.