Purely hypothetical Ideas for new trash units

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
36

OK, here is my first Civ Concept elaborated:

The Swiss

Infantry and Monk Civilisation

Background

The Swiss Eidgenossenschaft formed during the middle ages as a confederation of individual statelets. As they knew if they fought separated they would have had no chance against the oppressive lords, they formed an alliance but each “Kanton” kept a lot of independence. Opposed to many beliefs the Swiss actually fought also in a lot of inner conflicts, but when threatened from outside they recollected to fought it of together. The fighting Spirit of the Swiss was legendary, the land not very attractive and hard to occupy and hold. So it was only a question of time until foreign powers hired Swiss mercenaries to fight on their side.

The Swiss revolutionized Infantry Warfare with their concept of the “Gewalthaufen”. Instead of having individual corps armed with different weaponry for different utility, the Gewalthaufen consisted of different weaponry put together in one single battalion. This way it was armed for every opponent and combat situation. Some Soldiers who boosted the company with their fighting spirit and will to battle were paid double (“Doppelsoeldner”) to reflect their importance for the battalion. They would also be made responsible for retreats and losses and often fought on front and center. Who deserved to be paid double was usually determined by the soldier corps itself instead of the hiring Lords and countries.

Civilisation Bonusses

The Swiss had a very tough time whilst oppressed by the lords and robber knights and adapted with walling their settlements. They can build Stone Walls and Gates in Dark Age.

As they are used to the rocky Terrain of the alps, they can find nutritional ressources while working on that rocky terrain. They collect 25 % food while mining Stone.

In the Alps, there is never a shortage of Stone. The Swiss can collect 1/3 more Stone from Stone Piles.

As they are hardened by the rough terrain where you often had to camp on the open. All their foot soldiers need only 60 % population space. (includes archers, skirms and HC)

As they are used to mountain terrain, they developed strategies to fight uphill. Swiss units don’t receive any bonus damage from uphill.

The natural beauty of the Swiss landscape and their culture of freedom enticed the opponent soldiers to affiliate with them instead of fighting them. Swiss Monks slow down enemy units while converting.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Gewalthaufen (Swiss Mercenaries)

30 s, 1050 F, 450 G
Enables to build 10 free Doppelsoeldner in Team Castles. Doppelsoeldner trained this way need longer to train (30 s instead of 20). Can be researched Repeatedly.

This Tech reflects the Mercenary use of Swiss infantry from various external powers.

Imperial Age: Alpsaenger

75 s, 300 F, 100 G
Monks can heal multiple units at once (1 tile radius)

Nothing is more healing than the chant of angels from the sky.

Unique Units
Name Shieldman Elite Shieldman
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Produced at Barracks Barracks
Production Time 10 s 10 s
Production Cost 15 F, 10 W 15 F, 10 W
HP 50 60
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 4 4
Attack 1 1
Atk Bonus 2 vs Archers 2 vs Archers
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 100 s 300 G, 500 F
Special Consume only half Population space
Name Doppelsoeldner Elite Doppelsoeldner
Armor Class Infantry (+3) Infantry (+4)
Armor Class Unique Unit (+4) Unique Unit (+6)
Armor Class Monk (+2) Monk (+4)
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 45 F, 75 G 45 F, 75 G
HP 120 140
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 2 2
Attack 10 Melee 12 Melee
Atk Bonus 5 vs Infantry 8 vs Infantry
2 vs Standard Building 3 vs Standard Building
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 3 5
Pierce Armor 1 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 80 s 400 G, 1000 F
Special Regeneration (20 / min)
Can Heal nearby units (at half speed)
Tech Tree

Infantry: Full infantry Upgrades, no Eagle Warrior

Archers: No cavalry Archers and Parthian Tactics, but fully upgraded Archers, Skirms and Hand Cannoneers

Cavalry: Only access to light Cavalry and Cavalier. No Husbandry, Bloodlines and also missing the last armor Technology

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower, Onager and BBC, but no Siege Engineers

Monks: Full Monk Tech Tree

Defences: No Architecture, no Fortified Walls, no Hoardings. Also no Bombard Towers. But towers up to keep, heated shot and arrowslits. Also Treadmill Crane, Town Watch and Town Patrol.

'Economy/Trade: All economy techs available except Two-Man Saw

Water: Kinda bad, haven’t decided yet. Probably just missing all the Imp Techs (except heavy demo , dry dock and cannon galleon)

Team Bonus etc

Palisades have +2 / +1 Pierce Armor

Castle: Schloss Chilon

Wonder: Matterhorn (or Cathedral Notre Dame in Lausanne)

3818 - Riffelberg - Matterhorn viewed from Gornergratbahn.JPG

37

The Aragonese

Gunpowder and Naval Civilisation

Background

The Reconquista - Part 6 History of Aragon - YouTube

Civilisation Bonusses

Since the antique the Iberian Peninsula was known for their endurable Silver Mines. When Aragonese Villagers deplete a gold mine fully, they will construct a silver mine on top. The Silver mine can garrison one villager which will slowly generate Gold (at 10 g / minute).

The Aragones fielded a lot of different military and were capable of raising a strong army in little time to fight of the threats. All military units cost 8 less Food.

When not fighting the Aragonese gradually fortified their estates and armed protective defensive works. Towers and Castles deal + 3 damage from Castle age.

Whilst Aragones had a overall good Navy, they focused more on land expansion and a well-connected join of separated provinces. All non-combatant ships move 20 % faster.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Blanket Fire

60 s, 300 F, 200 F

With the rise of Gunpowder the Aragonese were the first to implement them as mass armament for their foot soldiers. Instead of aiming at individual targets, they aimed for the enemy foot battalions and inflicted massive damage. All ranged units deal full damage to all hit enemies. (Like Arambai)

(Note: In the overall changes I will change Hand Cannoneers so they have a better ROF but way lower accuracy.)

Imperial Age: Marriage Politics

150 s, 500 F, 800 G

Aragonese were like the Habsburgers masters in marrying into other kingdoms and duchies. This ofc always comes with a cost. Gold income of Silver Mines and Trade is increased by 30 %. All Aragonese allies get equal share of all Aragonese Gold income. (With 3 other team members Aragonese get only 25 % of their own gold income)

Unique Units
Name Jinete Elite Jinete
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Produced at Stable Stable
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 62 F, 40 W 62 F, 40 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1.45 1.45
ROF 1.8 1.8
Attack 2 Melee 2 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Cavalry 2 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 6 vs Cavalry Archer 7 vs Cavalry Archer
Range 6 7
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 2 4
Pierce Armor 1 1
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades, Ballsitics Cavalry Upgrades, Ballsitics
Upgrade Cost 90 s 400 G, 300 F
Special 2 minimum Range
Name Tercios Elite Tercios
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 12 s 12 s
Production Cost 42 F, 45 G 42 F, 45 G
HP 60 70
Speed 0.9 0.9
ROF 2.5 2.5
Attack 6 Melee 7 Melee
Atk Bonus 12 vs Cavalry 20 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 6 vs Camel 10 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 8 vs War Elephant 12 vs War Elephant
Range 2 2
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 3
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 135 s 800 G, 500 F
Tech Tree

Infantry: All upgrades except Champion and Halberdier.

Archery: No Elite Skirm, Heavy Cavalry Archers and Parthian Tactics, but fully upgraded Archers and Hand Cannoneers

Cavalry: Light Cavalry and Knights, but no Hussar or Cavalier. All other Cavalry Upgrades.

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower, Onager and BBC, Siege Engineers

Monks: Full Monk Tech Tree

Defences: All Defences available.

Economy/Trade: All Economy Techs except Heavy Plow and Crop Rotation

Water: Fully upgraded Trade, Fish, Galleys, Cannon Gallons and Demolition Ships, but no Fast Fire Ship.

Team Bonus etc

Corte available in Markets

Corte is a special kind of unit that can convert up to 5 allied units in the proximity. The Corte will be lost in the process. They can convert all units except kings and heroes.
The Cortes enable very unique teamplay tactics like enabling easier comebacks for almost defeated players and allowing pop capped players to share their overboom or military with their team members. It is potentially exploitable, therefore the 5 unit limitation.

Castle: Aljaferia

Wonder: Basilica del Pilar

Again also thx to the other Civ Crafters for inspiring me.

38

So a never ending supply of gold?

Also all your uu ideas seems like different versions of current units, half pop range on melee units self heal etc.

39

Correct, but the silver mines are easily destroyable and limited by the amount of gold piles on the map.

Actually I made a mistake with the aragonese design 11. I wanted to design a Civ that is dependent on Gold income and I gave them FU trash 11

Changes done.

What is wrong with using established patterns that work? I don’t want to make comletely gimmicky civs. Ofc each of the civs has it’s uniqueness, but I try to fit it in the existing game.
I think it’s good to have this kind of Balance.

Look at the Jinete, is this really so close to any other unit we have already? I think I made a very unique design without using any gimmicky stuff.

40

The Oasis

The Oasis is a unique Building available to the Songhai (from the start of the game). It is quite expensive (500 W, 100 G, 120 s), but gives a trickle of (90D/100F/110C/120Imp) Food per minute. The Oasis loses 750 HP per minute which is the exact amount a single Villager can repair it. It has 3000 HP and a size of 6x6 tiles, whilst units can stand everywhere except the inner 2x2 tiles. It can be garrisoned by up to 20 foot units and heals all allied units standing on its edifice as if they were Garrisoned. Garrisoned Villagers and ranged units can fire arrows from the inside. The whole 6x6 building also functions as a ressource drop-off like a Town Center for all allied Villagers.
The Oasis can’t train Villagers, but Goats instead. Each Goat needs 25 F and 15 s to produce.
The Oasis resists 40 % of bonus damage, but it’s extra arrows also deal no bonus damage.
The Oasis Arrows deal (4 D to 7 Imp) damage per shot and are affected by the archer attack upgrades, but the Oasis has only 4 Base Range (up to 4+3 when FU).

Explanation

Time to get creative. I first had the Idea of making a Building that can heall up the Camels and UU of Songhai, as the civ vill be quite reliant on these units and to keep them alive. There came the Oasis to mind. Then I thought “ok why not making it an eco building”? Ofc it should produce food, but not for free. So the Idea of the building losing Health so it needs to be repaired constantly. This way it is ensured you always pay for the food income. I designed it in a way it needs 62.5 W / min and 12.5 g / min. The food income is designed to be about equal with 5 farmers at the different ages.
But then came the additional problem that with this rate the Food / Wood ratio in imp would be terribly bad and the songhai would burn so fast through it, they would have a big disadvantage there. So I added the trainable Goats. With them the Building almost reaches the res Efficiency as Heavy Plow Farms if you constantly train sheep and eat them.
But you need a constant Gold income which the Songhai fortunately “kinda” have. But I don’t want to reach out too much about this, as it is also a very interesting mechanic.
Funnily I think a lot of the stuff I implemented here would not be viable if not for the repair requirement of the Oasis. Constant food income equal to 5 farmers, trainable goat for food, defensive/garrisonable building… All stuff that is normally balanced by restrictions like pop space, amount of wood on the map, stone on the map… But I think with the constant repair that occupies, depending on age about 4.5 => 3.5 Villagers constantly working on ressources or repairing it is balanced and a very unique implementation.
It gives a lot different tools, but it also needs a lot of attention to optimally utilize it. And if you don’t care, it will destroy itself. Hehe
(I “stole” a lot of mechanics from other creatives here in the forum, like the trainable Goat or healing. Unfortunately I read so much stuff I can’t remember who had the Ideas, but feel free to tell me…)

The 40 % reduced bonus damage is necessary as the Oasis has kinda low HP for it’s cost. If not for that, it will most likely be the primary target of the enemy agression and then more a pain than a useful tool.

41

The Songhai

Camel and Archer Civilisation

Background

The Songhai lived and prospered on the banks of the Niger river. For very long time in the Middle Ages this region was marked by constant political power changes. Phases of uncertainty, independency and subordination altered quickly. The great Songhai Empire was born in a succession crisis of the Mali Empire. The military leaders of Sulayman Dama and Sonni Ali conquered the prospering other Regions on the Niger banks. They used a conjecture of sheer military power, empowered by the mass raising in their subject states, raids from the riverside as well fear and brutality towards all who resisted.

Like the Mali Empire, the Songhai were dependent on the constant gold income from the Niger. This income made the region extremely attractive for traders. One of the most valuable and demanded products in the region were horses from European breeds. These often were sold at more than five times the Value as they were in Europe. These horses were often used in the warfare campaigns of the respective military leaders.

When the Niger river gold income decreased, one of the most infamous phases of human history began and the gold trade was replaced by slave trade. Among the trade routes reavers set their camps and regularly enslaved passing people, selling them to the slave traders.

Civilisation Bonusses

Gao was the center of the trans Saharan trade routes. Songhai start with a Camel scout and also can train Camel scouts from Feudal Age.

Camels were the most common form of mounts in the Songhai Empire. It was basically completely dependent on the big camel caravans. Camels deal (+1 F / +2 C / +3 Imp) damage.

The Songhai traditionally used a lot of Javelins in their armies. Skirmishers get +1 attack.

As the Songhai were completely dependent on the Saharan trade, they have access to their Unique Building, the Oasis. The Oasis has a lot of different utilities but needs to be constantly repaired as it otherwise will be devoured by the desert sand.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Terror Tactics

90 s, 350 F, 400 G

In their expansion period Songhai leaders knew no mercy. They raised army from their subjects and proceeded with terror and brutality against their opponents. They were also known for the usage of ship raids along the Niger river. Archer line and Galley line deal +2 Pierce Damage.

Imperial Age: Tuareg

90 s, 400 F, 500 G

With the decline of the Niger gold income, Songhai were forced to look for additional income. This is when the slave trade emerged and desert reavers appeared. Some of them were secretly supported by the authorities, others a plague for them. Therefor a game of cat-and-mouse arised which lead to only the fastest being fit enough.
Camels and Royal Guards move 15 % faster and yield 10 Gold for each killed enemy unit.

Unique Units
Name Lightbowman Elite Lightbowman
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 30 F, 20 W 30 F, 20 W
HP 20 25
Speed 1.2 1.2
ROF 2 2
Attack 3 Pierce 4 Pierce
Atk Bonus 5 vs Infantry 7 vs Infantry
Atk Bonus 5 vs Condottiero 7 vs Condottiero
Range 4 4
Accuracy 70% 8%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Upgrades Archer Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 180 s 500 G, 200 F
Name Royal Guard Elite Royal Guard
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 16 s 12 s
Production Cost 45 F, 80 G 45 F, 80 G
HP 160 220
Speed 1.3 1.3
ROF 1.8 1.8
Attack 9 Melee 11 Melee
Atk Bonus 16 vs Camel 24 vs Camel
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 1 1
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades Cavalry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 105 s 900 G, 700 F

Royal Guards are heavy experienced elite cavalry that have specialised in dealing with Camel forces. Royal Guards are very versatile but this versatility comes at the expense of a very high Gold cost.

Tech Tree

Infantry: Spear line only up to Pikeman. Militia line up to Long Swordsman, missing last armor tech.

Archers: All Archer units (Skirm/Archer/CA) and all upgrades except Chemistry.

Cavalry: FU Camels, Light Cav (no hussar) and Cavalier.

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower and Onager, no Siege Engineers

Monks: Herbal Medicine, Atonement, Heresy, Sanctity, Illumination and Theocracy

Defences: No Architecture, no Keep and Bombard Tower. Otherwise all Defensive Techs

Economy/Trade: All economy techs available except the stone Mining upgrades

Water: Missing Chemistry. Galleys up to Galleon, No Fast Fire and no Heavy Demolition Ship. No Shipwright.

Team Bonus etc

Team Bonus:
Livestock moves 30 % faster.

Castle:

Wonder:

1 Like
42

What about a Elephant that gather resources similar way to a villager
It would cost more food, it would gather slower than a villager but with more resource capacity
The idea comes from AoE Online

1 Like
43

I don’t think this will fit in any of my concepts here.
And I also thik this idea would lead to a lot of issues that would lead to the elephant vills having absurd designs just to “somehow fit them in”.
Thing is the current pop occupation of vills is actually very important for having interesting lategame situations and such a bonus can easily break that.

44

It was the Niger river, not the Kongo river.

The majority of Songhai army were infantry and cavalry. Camelry was rare, but many Tuaregs in the Songhai army rode camels. Tuaregs were force conscripted during Sunni Ali’s reign, but they were professional soldiers during Askia the Great.

The campaign should be Askia the Great, with his generals he conquered the Mossi, Fulani, Hausa, Tuareg and most parts of Mali.

2 Likes
45

Actually… Could be a nice addition. What if this Eco Elephant function as resources gather point?
I know sounds weird, but could work and make a civ really unique.

Tentative stats:
Cost: 50F 50W
TT: 30 sec
HP: 200
Armor: 0/0 (benefices of Cav BS upgrades)
Attack: 4 melee (benefices of Cav BS upgrades)
Armor Class: Cavalry
Speed: 0.8
Available in TC from Feudal Age

Vils can drop resources in this Elephant.

Pros:
-no need to invest in new mining or lumber camps. High Eco mobility
-Gathering Elephant could function as defense, specially against archers and scouts.
-Could work as a military unit if needed. Low attack, but still have 200 HP

Cons:
-Impacts the vil creation by being trainable only from TC and 30 sec
-Weak against spearman because its armor class.
-Doesn’t help in walling.

46

Oh ^^ Thx, I’ve corrected this.

The Infantry was most of the time armed with ranged weapons, javelins and bows.

Camels in general were rarely used in combat. Especially as mount.
So actually the game is already really, really inaccurate here.

47

In general, I support this idea. More units means more bonuses, so more fun.
Plus these units could help civs that are forced to be one dimensional.

2 Likes
48

After talking about the new Civs here is the Concept of Changing the Bengalis:

A) Parthian Tactics removed but Thumb Ring given. This is a change that should synergize better with my new Ratha Design (Trash Rathas with Parthain Tactics would possibly be OP). It’s also better for the Elephant Archers and gives Bengalis FU Arbalest.

B) Bengalis don’t Receive extra Vills when Reaching the next age anymore. Instead they get the Bonus of “Farms give a trickle of 3 Food per Minute”. This should synergize way better with their Gampeplay, allowing for more flexible economy (if you need more wood you just grab some farmers and the farms automatically give a low amount of food income despite being abandoned).

C) The Elephant Bonus of receiving less bonus damage and being more resistant to conversion is changed into “Elephants blast radius is increased by 1 tile. Elephant units deal +6 attack vs Buildings.”

D) Paiks no longer affects Rathas. Cost reduced to 300 W / 200 G.

Ratha:

Name Ratha Elite Ratha
Armor Class Archer Archer
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Archery Range / Castle Archery Range / Castle
Production Time 30 s / 15 s 30 s / 10 s
Production Cost 120 W / 100 W 120 W / 100 W
HP 35 45
Speed 1.5 1.5
ROF 1.5 1.3
Attack (ranged) 3 Pierce 3 Pierce
Atk Bonus 2 vs Camel 2 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 5 vs Spearmen 7 vs Spearmen
Atk Bonus 3 vs Monks 3 vs Monks
Attack (melee) 4 Melee 5 Melee
Atk Bonus 8 vs Siege 12 vs Siege
Range 5 5
Accuracy 80% 80%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Cavalry Archer Upgrades , Melee Atk Upgrads
Upgrade Cost 60 s 600 G, 800 F (at Castle)
Special Conversion Resistance Conversion Resistance
49

Now the changes to Cumans.

A) Cumans don’t receive the 2nd Feudal TC anymore.

B) Siege Workshops, Battering Rams, Capped Rams, Stables and Archery Ranges are all available one Age Earlier.

C) All military Production Buildings cost -50 W. (Instead of Stables + Archery Ranges -75 W)

D) Blast Furnace removed, but Supplies given.

E) Effect of Steppe Husbandry Changed into “Cavalry units move 10 % faster”. Cost Changed into 200 F only.

F) Cuman Mercenaries removed. Instead Cumans now get “Contus Lances”. Contus Lances gives their Steppe Lancers +1 Range. Contus Lances costs 400 G 300 F and 50 s to research.

G) Cumans gain access to Siege Engineers (Siege Civ without SE… I think FE has forgotton something…)

Unique Units:

Name Flamethrower Elite Flamethrower
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 30 F, 60 W 30 F, 60 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1.15 1.15
ROF 0.75 0.75
Attack 4 Melee 5 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Spearmen 3 vs Spearmen
2 vs Siege 3 vs Siege
4 vs Wall and Gate 5 vs Wall and Gate
3 vs Ship 4 vs Ship
3 vs Fishing Ship 4 vs Fishing Ship
Range 4 4
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Armor, Chemistry Archer Armor, Chemistry
Upgrade Cost 100 s 600 G, 500 W
Special Pierce-Through Damage
Projectiles travel 2 Tiles
Name Kipchak Elite Kipchak
Armor Class Archer Archer
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 15 s 15 s
Production Cost 60 W, 35 G 60 W, 35 G
HP 40 45
Speed 1.45 1.45
ROF 2 2
Attack (ranged) 5 Pierce 6 Pierce
Atk Bonus 4 vs Camel 6 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 2 vs Spearmen 2 vs Spearmen
Range 5 5
Accuracy 90% 90%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Cavalry Archer Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 65 s 800 G, 1100 F

This changes the Cuman gameplay to be way more dependent on making use of their superior Mobility, as their units all lack some Attack upgrades. They have the by far fastest Cavalry, but it loses in direct battles with the other cavalry civs, forcing the Cuman player to wisely chose if and which battles to take. Settling in my ideologic concept of giving each civ a destinct “profession” where they excel in, but weaknesses in the other aspects.

50

To conclude the part of the Changes, here are the two unit Changes I want to do aswell. It is only to Hand Cannoneers and Scorpions, so they have better / more fitting unique utility.

Name Hand Cannoneer
Armor Class Archer
Armor Class Gunpowder Unit
Produced at Archery Range
Production Time 30 s
Production Cost 60 F, 45 G
HP 40
Speed 1
ROF 2.5
Attack 17 Pierce
Atk Bonus 12 vs Infantry
Atk Bonus 2 vs Ram
Range 7
Accuracy 20%
Melee Armor 3
Pierce Armor 0
Benefits from Archer Armor Upgrades
Name Scorpion Heavy Scorpion
Armor Class Siege Unit Siege Unit
Produced at Siege Workshop Siege Workshop
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 90 W, 75 G 90 W, 75 G
HP 40 50
Speed 0.65 0.65
ROF 3 3
Attack 12 Pierce 14 Pierce
Atk Bonus 3 vs Cavalry 4 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 2 vs Building 4 vs Building
Atk Bonus 2 vs Ram 3 vs Ram
Range 7 7
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 6 9
Benefits from Ballistics, Chemistry, Siege Engineers
Upgrade Cost 50 s 1100 W, 1000 F
Special No minimum Range No minimum Range

The Designs of these units is so, that it should synergize very well with the Aragon Civ design. The Idea is, that with a good comp of a few Jinete, HC, Scorpions and Monks you can inflict heavy losses to the opponent when he tries to destroy your silver mines. You probably can’t kill a big army with it, but you can possibly get good trades and use that window to strike back at different locations.
I will make a description what I hope to accomplish to add gameplaywise. It’s still the main Idea to diversify and add new interesting strats with new unit compositions.

51

One (potentially final) idea is for the new EA regional unit.
It’s the Axeman, that performs basically as good as the Militia line vs Spears and Skirms, but lacks in most other matchups. The other “advantage” over the Militia line is the way less upgrade cost, so it’s easier to get into the Axeman as an addition than the Militias.

Name Axeman Elite Axeman
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Produced at Barracks Barracks
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 50 F, 25 W 50 F, 25 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1 1
ROF 2 2
Attack 5 Melee 6 Melee
Attack +10 vs Spearmen +14 vs Spearmen
Attack +3 vs Standard Building +4 vs Standard Building
Attack +7 vs Siege +10 vs Siege
Attack +7 vs Eagle Warrior +10 vs Eagle Warrior
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 60 s 500 G, 250 F
1 Like
52

I have been proposing for a while a generic riding infantry unit.
Anyway, I would make some tweaks to our axeman, and mixing with two more ideas:

  1. Add this generic Axeman
  2. Give them “eagle” armor class
  3. Give them this ability Feudal Siege Idea

I think they should work as a weaker version of Light cav in terms of riding.

53

Interesting…

Just for my understanding, your axeman is designed to be available from feudal, right?

So the tradeoff with the scout line would be:

doesn’t need an addictional building
is cheaper (esp. in food)
isn’t countered by spears
can make feudal rams to break in
can apply a minimal pressure on walls and houses

is slower
has 1 less pierce armor
is countered by maa

+/- has more HP before and less HP after bloodlines

Imo we could even combine the two ideas.

The only thing that I don’t really like is the eagle armor class… It feels a bit “constructed”.
Maybe we should rethink this armor class name also, it could besomething like “light infantry” or “fast infanty” or so.

54

Exactly

Exactly… The idea is give a riding alternative more appealing with full infantry civs like Vikings, Celts, Dravidians, etc…
The ram feature could be too much, but I think is interesting have a viable siege unit in feudal. Cuman bonus frankly is too expensive for feudal Eco

Actually, I proposed change the name to light armor class and give to many other units, including light infantry, light cav units and most archer units. But is too far from this discussion

55

Just for fun I saw that the current trash units I designed here almost make for a “perfect” trash counter wheel.
I just added one more unit to it, which is the “Cossack”.
The Cossack is basically a light cavalry variant but instead of pierce armor (and bonus vs monks) it has melee armor and some bonus against both cavalry and infantry.
It is also a bit slower than the Hussars and a bit more costly for the same life pool.
I haven’t it finally designed left, as it’s heavily dependent on the designs of the other units I made in this Thread. Which I would have to adjust a bit too. Mainly the Flamethrower needs to be turned into dealing Pierece instead of Melee damage and with different ROF and bonus damages.

Heres my “Counter table”. When there is a value Above 1 it means the unit on the left will win the direct fight with roughly that ratio of ressource advantage. If the value is below 1 it means the unit on top will win it with the reciprocal.

Halberdier Hussar Skirmisher Shieldman Lightbowman Jinete Chariot Flamethrower Axeman Cossack
Halberdier 1.00 5.00 0.67 2.00 0.20 4.00 0.50 0.33 0.33 4.00
Hussar 0.20 1.00 5.00 3.00 2.00 0.33 3.00 1.50 0.33 0.40
Skirmisher 1.50 0.20 1.00 0.25 4.00 2.50 4.00 3.00 0.33 0.40
Shieldman 0.50 0.33 4.00 1.00 0.33 3.00 4.00 4.00 0.33 0.25
Lightbowman 5.00 0.50 0.25 3.00 1.00 0.67 0.33 0.50 4.00 1.00
Jinete 0.25 3.00 0.40 0.33 1.50 1.00 5.00 0.25 3.00 1.67
Chariot 2.00 0.33 0.25 0.25 3.00 0.20 1.00 4.00 3.00 3.00
Flamethrower 3.00 0.67 0.33 0.25 2.00 4.00 0.25 1.00 1.00 3.00
Axeman 3.00 3.00 3.00 3.00 0.25 0.33 0.33 1.00 1.00 0.40
Cossack 0.25 2.50 2.50 4.00 1.00 0.60 0.33 0.33 2.50 1.00

The whell has 5 ranged units of which 4 deal pierce damage and come from the archery range. 3 are from the stables and 3 from the barracks.

I havent found an “ideal” composition partner for the cossack yet. Maybe it can later be found in a new Infantry power unit or aswell in a new “power skirmisher” as it already synergizes well with the current skirmisher design (it’s still a trash combo, don’t fear it will take over over gold + trash comps).

Every of the trash units has at least one other it can pair quite well with, but usually you want to put together 3 of them to build a “helthy” composition. I fount 19 of these possible compositions of which 11 can somewhat “hold their own” in the very lategame. They still will fall short to comps that feature gold units, but they have these features:

They have at least 1 unit to counter each individual available trash unit.
They have good utilty in a 10-dimensional utilty analysis I made. All of which must be seen in respect of “trash unit properties” which means that they usually will lack in certain ######## like raiding, siegiing and pop efficiency. The 10 dimensions I chose are: Raiding, Siege Counter, Mobility, Sieging, Cavalry Counter, Archer Counter, CA Counter, Infantry Counter, Monk Counter and Pop Efficiency.
A comp is only viable if at least 1 of it’s units is “comparably for trash units” in the upper third of the compariseon in between them. The “viable” comps are:

Halberdier Hussar Lightbowman
Halberdier Hussar Chariot
Halberdier Shieldman Chariot
Hussar Jinete Flamethrower
Hussar Flamethrower Cossack
Skirmisher Jinete Axeman
Skirmisher Jinete Cossack
Skirmisher Chariot Axeman
Skirmisher Chariot Cossack
Shieldman Jinete Axeman
Shieldman Chariot Axeman
Shieldman Chariot Cossack

Semi-Viable cause of the lack of utility are
Halberdier Skirmisher Cossack
Hussar Skirmisher Jinete
Skirmisher Flamethrower Cossack
Shieldman Lightbowman Jinete
Shieldman Flamethrower Cossack
Halberdier Skirmisher Lightbowman
Halberdier Shieldman Lightbowman

Quite narually all of the unit comps have either 1 or 2 melee units and 1 or 2 ranged units. Which is kinda surprising as for the maths I did i decided to don’t let that influence the result at all. But it turned out like this, which is kinda nice.
There is no like “superior” comp. All comps have advantages and disadvantages. And they all are kinda lackluster in comparison to the traditional gold + trash comps which means as long as one still has Gold to spent he will be able to make superior army comps (which usually emerge also “natural”). It’s just when gold gets scarce you have some options to play with.