Purely hypothetical Ideas for new trash units

The Songhai

Camel and Archer Civilisation

Background

The Songhai lived and prospered on the banks of the Niger river. For very long time in the Middle Ages this region was marked by constant political power changes. Phases of uncertainty, independency and subordination altered quickly. The great Songhai Empire was born in a succession crisis of the Mali Empire. The military leaders of Sulayman Dama and Sonni Ali conquered the prospering other Regions on the Niger banks. They used a conjecture of sheer military power, empowered by the mass raising in their subject states, raids from the riverside as well fear and brutality towards all who resisted.

Like the Mali Empire, the Songhai were dependent on the constant gold income from the Niger. This income made the region extremely attractive for traders. One of the most valuable and demanded products in the region were horses from European breeds. These often were sold at more than five times the Value as they were in Europe. These horses were often used in the warfare campaigns of the respective military leaders.

When the Niger river gold income decreased, one of the most infamous phases of human history began and the gold trade was replaced by slave trade. Among the trade routes reavers set their camps and regularly enslaved passing people, selling them to the slave traders.

Civilisation Bonusses

Gao was the center of the trans Saharan trade routes. Songhai start with a Camel scout and also can train Camel scouts from Feudal Age.

Camels were the most common form of mounts in the Songhai Empire. It was basically completely dependent on the big camel caravans. Camels deal (+1 F / +2 C / +3 Imp) damage.

The Songhai traditionally used a lot of Javelins in their armies. Skirmishers get +1 attack.

As the Songhai were completely dependent on the Saharan trade, they have access to their Unique Building, the Oasis. The Oasis has a lot of different utilities but needs to be constantly repaired as it otherwise will be devoured by the desert sand.

Unique Technologies

Castle Age: Terror Tactics

90 s, 350 F, 400 G

In their expansion period Songhai leaders knew no mercy. They raised army from their subjects and proceeded with terror and brutality against their opponents. They were also known for the usage of ship raids along the Niger river. Archer line and Galley line deal +2 Pierce Damage.

Imperial Age: Tuareg

90 s, 400 F, 500 G

With the decline of the Niger gold income, Songhai were forced to look for additional income. This is when the slave trade emerged and desert reavers appeared. Some of them were secretly supported by the authorities, others a plague for them. Therefor a game of cat-and-mouse arised which lead to only the fastest being fit enough.
Camels and Royal Guards move 15 % faster and yield 10 Gold for each killed enemy unit.

Unique Units
Name Lightbowman Elite Lightbowman
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 30 F, 20 W 30 F, 20 W
HP 20 25
Speed 1.2 1.2
ROF 2 2
Attack 3 Pierce 4 Pierce
Atk Bonus 5 vs Infantry 7 vs Infantry
Atk Bonus 5 vs Condottiero 7 vs Condottiero
Range 4 4
Accuracy 70% 8%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Upgrades Archer Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 180 s 500 G, 200 F
Name Royal Guard Elite Royal Guard
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 16 s 12 s
Production Cost 45 F, 80 G 45 F, 80 G
HP 160 220
Speed 1.3 1.3
ROF 1.8 1.8
Attack 9 Melee 11 Melee
Atk Bonus 16 vs Camel 24 vs Camel
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 1 1
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades Cavalry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 105 s 900 G, 700 F

Royal Guards are heavy experienced elite cavalry that have specialised in dealing with Camel forces. Royal Guards are very versatile but this versatility comes at the expense of a very high Gold cost.

Tech Tree

Infantry: Spear line only up to Pikeman. Militia line up to Long Swordsman, missing last armor tech.

Archers: All Archer units (Skirm/Archer/CA) and all upgrades except Chemistry.

Cavalry: FU Camels, Light Cav (no hussar) and Cavalier.

Siege: Heavy Scorpion, Capped Ram, Siege Tower and Onager, no Siege Engineers

Monks: Herbal Medicine, Atonement, Heresy, Sanctity, Illumination and Theocracy

Defences: No Architecture, no Keep and Bombard Tower. Otherwise all Defensive Techs

Economy/Trade: All economy techs available except the stone Mining upgrades

Water: Missing Chemistry. Galleys up to Galleon, No Fast Fire and no Heavy Demolition Ship. No Shipwright.

Team Bonus etc

Team Bonus:
Livestock moves 30 % faster.

Castle:

Wonder:

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What about a Elephant that gather resources similar way to a villager
It would cost more food, it would gather slower than a villager but with more resource capacity
The idea comes from AoE Online

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I don’t think this will fit in any of my concepts here.
And I also thik this idea would lead to a lot of issues that would lead to the elephant vills having absurd designs just to “somehow fit them in”.
Thing is the current pop occupation of vills is actually very important for having interesting lategame situations and such a bonus can easily break that.

It was the Niger river, not the Kongo river.

The majority of Songhai army were infantry and cavalry. Camelry was rare, but many Tuaregs in the Songhai army rode camels. Tuaregs were force conscripted during Sunni Ali’s reign, but they were professional soldiers during Askia the Great.

The campaign should be Askia the Great, with his generals he conquered the Mossi, Fulani, Hausa, Tuareg and most parts of Mali.

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Actually… Could be a nice addition. What if this Eco Elephant function as resources gather point?
I know sounds weird, but could work and make a civ really unique.

Tentative stats:
Cost: 50F 50W
TT: 30 sec
HP: 200
Armor: 0/0 (benefices of Cav BS upgrades)
Attack: 4 melee (benefices of Cav BS upgrades)
Armor Class: Cavalry
Speed: 0.8
Available in TC from Feudal Age

Vils can drop resources in this Elephant.

Pros:
-no need to invest in new mining or lumber camps. High Eco mobility
-Gathering Elephant could function as defense, specially against archers and scouts.
-Could work as a military unit if needed. Low attack, but still have 200 HP

Cons:
-Impacts the vil creation by being trainable only from TC and 30 sec
-Weak against spearman because its armor class.
-Doesn’t help in walling.

Oh ^^ Thx, I’ve corrected this.

The Infantry was most of the time armed with ranged weapons, javelins and bows.

Camels in general were rarely used in combat. Especially as mount.
So actually the game is already really, really inaccurate here.

In general, I support this idea. More units means more bonuses, so more fun.
Plus these units could help civs that are forced to be one dimensional.

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After talking about the new Civs here is the Concept of Changing the Bengalis:

A) Parthian Tactics removed but Thumb Ring given. This is a change that should synergize better with my new Ratha Design (Trash Rathas with Parthain Tactics would possibly be OP). It’s also better for the Elephant Archers and gives Bengalis FU Arbalest.

B) Bengalis don’t Receive extra Vills when Reaching the next age anymore. Instead they get the Bonus of “Farms give a trickle of 3 Food per Minute”. This should synergize way better with their Gampeplay, allowing for more flexible economy (if you need more wood you just grab some farmers and the farms automatically give a low amount of food income despite being abandoned).

C) The Elephant Bonus of receiving less bonus damage and being more resistant to conversion is changed into “Elephants blast radius is increased by 1 tile. Elephant units deal +6 attack vs Buildings.”

D) Paiks no longer affects Rathas. Cost reduced to 300 W / 200 G.

Ratha:

Name Ratha Elite Ratha
Armor Class Archer Archer
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Archery Range / Castle Archery Range / Castle
Production Time 30 s / 15 s 30 s / 10 s
Production Cost 120 W / 100 W 120 W / 100 W
HP 35 45
Speed 1.5 1.5
ROF 1.5 1.3
Attack (ranged) 3 Pierce 3 Pierce
Atk Bonus 2 vs Camel 2 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 5 vs Spearmen 7 vs Spearmen
Atk Bonus 3 vs Monks 3 vs Monks
Attack (melee) 4 Melee 5 Melee
Atk Bonus 8 vs Siege 12 vs Siege
Range 5 5
Accuracy 80% 80%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Cavalry Archer Upgrades , Melee Atk Upgrads
Upgrade Cost 60 s 600 G, 800 F (at Castle)
Special Conversion Resistance Conversion Resistance

Now the changes to Cumans.

A) Cumans don’t receive the 2nd Feudal TC anymore.

B) Siege Workshops, Battering Rams, Capped Rams, Stables and Archery Ranges are all available one Age Earlier.

C) All military Production Buildings cost -50 W. (Instead of Stables + Archery Ranges -75 W)

D) Blast Furnace removed, but Supplies given.

E) Effect of Steppe Husbandry Changed into “Cavalry units move 10 % faster”. Cost Changed into 200 F only.

F) Cuman Mercenaries removed. Instead Cumans now get “Contus Lances”. Contus Lances gives their Steppe Lancers +1 Range. Contus Lances costs 400 G 300 F and 50 s to research.

G) Cumans gain access to Siege Engineers (Siege Civ without SE… I think FE has forgotton something…)

Unique Units:

Name Flamethrower Elite Flamethrower
Armor Class Archer Archer
Produced at Archery Range Archery Range
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 30 F, 60 W 30 F, 60 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1.15 1.15
ROF 0.75 0.75
Attack 4 Melee 5 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Spearmen 3 vs Spearmen
2 vs Siege 3 vs Siege
4 vs Wall and Gate 5 vs Wall and Gate
3 vs Ship 4 vs Ship
3 vs Fishing Ship 4 vs Fishing Ship
Range 4 4
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Archer Armor, Chemistry Archer Armor, Chemistry
Upgrade Cost 100 s 600 G, 500 W
Special Pierce-Through Damage
Projectiles travel 2 Tiles
Name Kipchak Elite Kipchak
Armor Class Archer Archer
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry
Armor Class Cavalry Archer Cavalry Archer
Armor Class Unique Unit Unique Unit
Produced at Castle Castle
Production Time 15 s 15 s
Production Cost 60 W, 35 G 60 W, 35 G
HP 40 45
Speed 1.45 1.45
ROF 2 2
Attack (ranged) 5 Pierce 6 Pierce
Atk Bonus 4 vs Camel 6 vs Camel
Atk Bonus 2 vs Spearmen 2 vs Spearmen
Range 5 5
Accuracy 90% 90%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 0 0
Benefits from Cavalry Archer Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 65 s 800 G, 1100 F

This changes the Cuman gameplay to be way more dependent on making use of their superior Mobility, as their units all lack some Attack upgrades. They have the by far fastest Cavalry, but it loses in direct battles with the other cavalry civs, forcing the Cuman player to wisely chose if and which battles to take. Settling in my ideologic concept of giving each civ a destinct “profession” where they excel in, but weaknesses in the other aspects.

To conclude the part of the Changes, here are the two unit Changes I want to do aswell. It is only to Hand Cannoneers and Scorpions, so they have better / more fitting unique utility.

Name Hand Cannoneer
Armor Class Archer
Armor Class Gunpowder Unit
Produced at Archery Range
Production Time 30 s
Production Cost 60 F, 45 G
HP 40
Speed 1
ROF 2.5
Attack 17 Pierce
Atk Bonus 12 vs Infantry
Atk Bonus 2 vs Ram
Range 7
Accuracy 20%
Melee Armor 3
Pierce Armor 0
Benefits from Archer Armor Upgrades
Name Scorpion Heavy Scorpion
Armor Class Siege Unit Siege Unit
Produced at Siege Workshop Siege Workshop
Production Time 30 s 30 s
Production Cost 90 W, 75 G 90 W, 75 G
HP 40 50
Speed 0.65 0.65
ROF 3 3
Attack 12 Pierce 14 Pierce
Atk Bonus 3 vs Cavalry 4 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 2 vs Building 4 vs Building
Atk Bonus 2 vs Ram 3 vs Ram
Range 7 7
Accuracy 100% 100%
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 6 9
Benefits from Ballistics, Chemistry, Siege Engineers
Upgrade Cost 50 s 1100 W, 1000 F
Special No minimum Range No minimum Range

The Designs of these units is so, that it should synergize very well with the Aragon Civ design. The Idea is, that with a good comp of a few Jinete, HC, Scorpions and Monks you can inflict heavy losses to the opponent when he tries to destroy your silver mines. You probably can’t kill a big army with it, but you can possibly get good trades and use that window to strike back at different locations.
I will make a description what I hope to accomplish to add gameplaywise. It’s still the main Idea to diversify and add new interesting strats with new unit compositions.

One (potentially final) idea is for the new EA regional unit.
It’s the Axeman, that performs basically as good as the Militia line vs Spears and Skirms, but lacks in most other matchups. The other “advantage” over the Militia line is the way less upgrade cost, so it’s easier to get into the Axeman as an addition than the Militias.

Name Axeman Elite Axeman
Armor Class Infantry Infantry
Produced at Barracks Barracks
Production Time 20 s 20 s
Production Cost 50 F, 25 W 50 F, 25 W
HP 50 60
Speed 1 1
ROF 2 2
Attack 5 Melee 6 Melee
Attack +10 vs Spearmen +14 vs Spearmen
Attack +3 vs Standard Building +4 vs Standard Building
Attack +7 vs Siege +10 vs Siege
Attack +7 vs Eagle Warrior +10 vs Eagle Warrior
Range - -
Accuracy - -
Melee Armor 0 0
Pierce Armor 2 2
Benefits from Infantry Upgrades Infantry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 60 s 500 G, 250 F
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I have been proposing for a while a generic riding infantry unit.
Anyway, I would make some tweaks to our axeman, and mixing with two more ideas:

  1. Add this generic Axeman
  2. Give them “eagle” armor class
  3. Give them this ability Feudal Siege Idea

I think they should work as a weaker version of Light cav in terms of riding.

Interesting…

Just for my understanding, your axeman is designed to be available from feudal, right?

So the tradeoff with the scout line would be:

doesn’t need an addictional building
is cheaper (esp. in food)
isn’t countered by spears
can make feudal rams to break in
can apply a minimal pressure on walls and houses

is slower
has 1 less pierce armor
is countered by maa

+/- has more HP before and less HP after bloodlines

Imo we could even combine the two ideas.

The only thing that I don’t really like is the eagle armor class… It feels a bit “constructed”.
Maybe we should rethink this armor class name also, it could besomething like “light infantry” or “fast infanty” or so.

Exactly

Exactly… The idea is give a riding alternative more appealing with full infantry civs like Vikings, Celts, Dravidians, etc…
The ram feature could be too much, but I think is interesting have a viable siege unit in feudal. Cuman bonus frankly is too expensive for feudal Eco

Actually, I proposed change the name to light armor class and give to many other units, including light infantry, light cav units and most archer units. But is too far from this discussion

Just for fun I saw that the current trash units I designed here almost make for a “perfect” trash counter wheel.
I just added one more unit to it, which is the “Cossack”.
The Cossack is basically a light cavalry variant but instead of pierce armor (and bonus vs monks) it has melee armor and some bonus against both cavalry and infantry.
It is also a bit slower than the Hussars and a bit more costly for the same life pool.
I haven’t it finally designed left, as it’s heavily dependent on the designs of the other units I made in this Thread. Which I would have to adjust a bit too. Mainly the Flamethrower needs to be turned into dealing Pierece instead of Melee damage and with different ROF and bonus damages.

Heres my “Counter table”. When there is a value Above 1 it means the unit on the left will win the direct fight with roughly that ratio of ressource advantage. If the value is below 1 it means the unit on top will win it with the reciprocal.

Halberdier Hussar Skirmisher Shieldman Lightbowman Jinete Chariot Flamethrower Axeman Cossack
Halberdier 1.00 5.00 0.67 2.00 0.20 4.00 0.50 0.33 0.33 4.00
Hussar 0.20 1.00 5.00 3.00 2.00 0.33 3.00 1.50 0.33 0.40
Skirmisher 1.50 0.20 1.00 0.25 4.00 2.50 4.00 3.00 0.33 0.40
Shieldman 0.50 0.33 4.00 1.00 0.33 3.00 4.00 4.00 0.33 0.25
Lightbowman 5.00 0.50 0.25 3.00 1.00 0.67 0.33 0.50 4.00 1.00
Jinete 0.25 3.00 0.40 0.33 1.50 1.00 5.00 0.25 3.00 1.67
Chariot 2.00 0.33 0.25 0.25 3.00 0.20 1.00 4.00 3.00 3.00
Flamethrower 3.00 0.67 0.33 0.25 2.00 4.00 0.25 1.00 1.00 3.00
Axeman 3.00 3.00 3.00 3.00 0.25 0.33 0.33 1.00 1.00 0.40
Cossack 0.25 2.50 2.50 4.00 1.00 0.60 0.33 0.33 2.50 1.00

The whell has 5 ranged units of which 4 deal pierce damage and come from the archery range. 3 are from the stables and 3 from the barracks.

I havent found an “ideal” composition partner for the cossack yet. Maybe it can later be found in a new Infantry power unit or aswell in a new “power skirmisher” as it already synergizes well with the current skirmisher design (it’s still a trash combo, don’t fear it will take over over gold + trash comps).

Every of the trash units has at least one other it can pair quite well with, but usually you want to put together 3 of them to build a “helthy” composition. I fount 19 of these possible compositions of which 11 can somewhat “hold their own” in the very lategame. They still will fall short to comps that feature gold units, but they have these features:

They have at least 1 unit to counter each individual available trash unit.
They have good utilty in a 10-dimensional utilty analysis I made. All of which must be seen in respect of “trash unit properties” which means that they usually will lack in certain ######## like raiding, siegiing and pop efficiency. The 10 dimensions I chose are: Raiding, Siege Counter, Mobility, Sieging, Cavalry Counter, Archer Counter, CA Counter, Infantry Counter, Monk Counter and Pop Efficiency.
A comp is only viable if at least 1 of it’s units is “comparably for trash units” in the upper third of the compariseon in between them. The “viable” comps are:

Halberdier Hussar Lightbowman
Halberdier Hussar Chariot
Halberdier Shieldman Chariot
Hussar Jinete Flamethrower
Hussar Flamethrower Cossack
Skirmisher Jinete Axeman
Skirmisher Jinete Cossack
Skirmisher Chariot Axeman
Skirmisher Chariot Cossack
Shieldman Jinete Axeman
Shieldman Chariot Axeman
Shieldman Chariot Cossack

Semi-Viable cause of the lack of utility are
Halberdier Skirmisher Cossack
Hussar Skirmisher Jinete
Skirmisher Flamethrower Cossack
Shieldman Lightbowman Jinete
Shieldman Flamethrower Cossack
Halberdier Skirmisher Lightbowman
Halberdier Shieldman Lightbowman

Quite narually all of the unit comps have either 1 or 2 melee units and 1 or 2 ranged units. Which is kinda surprising as for the maths I did i decided to don’t let that influence the result at all. But it turned out like this, which is kinda nice.
There is no like “superior” comp. All comps have advantages and disadvantages. And they all are kinda lackluster in comparison to the traditional gold + trash comps which means as long as one still has Gold to spent he will be able to make superior army comps (which usually emerge also “natural”). It’s just when gold gets scarce you have some options to play with.

I have now designed the Cossack. It’s a bit different to the other designs as it doen’s counter one comp. It’s a melee specialist that isn’t very effective against ranged units and also kinda dies to the pikeman line (and camels).
From the design it should synergize with anti-archer CA, which I then would give as a UU to a new Rus civ. The name would be the Bashkir. The bashkir would have notably bigger range than regular CA and a bonus vs Archers (even skirms), but generally a lower Damage output than regular CA. Meaning it would need a melee specialist in front.

Because the Cossack is very dangerous in feudal (it dies still to spears and archers, but the issue for archer civs is to get the right numbers) it has a notably longer creation time in feudal which is then reduced with the upgrades, pretty much like eagles and archers. It’s not OP by any means (imo they are actually overall not that good units), but the strategical outplay potential would be too big without that creation time increase.

Name Light Cossack (F) Cossack (C) Elite Cossack (I)
Armor Class Cavalry Cavalry Cavalry
Produced at Stable Stable Stable
Production Time 40 s 32 s 32 s
Production Cost 90 F 90 F 90 F
HP 60 75 80
Speed 1.55 1.55 1.55
ROF 2 2 2
Attack 4 Melee 6 Melee 7 Melee
Atk Bonus 2 vs Cavalry 2 vs Cavalry 3 vs Cavalry
Atk Bonus 3 vs Infantry 3 vs Infantry 5 vs Infantry
Range - - -
Accuracy - - -
Melee Armor 1 1 2
Pierce Armor 0 0 0
Benefits from Cavalry Upgrades Cavalry Upgrades Cavalry Upgrades
Upgrade Cost 100 F, 100 G, 60s 300 F, 400 G, 60s

Besides the newly added Rus civ (Design may come later) civs like Tatars and Cumans can also get access to the Cossack. Both of which have nice bonusses to them: Cumans faster movement and Tatars Sill Armor can compensate for the ranged weakness of the Cossacks.

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Maceman. This game needs one.

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