This is probably not what you meant by your statement, but it kinda comes off as blaming the victim for getting alt F4’d. Let me expand the logic a bit so you can see why we shouldn’t look back fondly at the days of “infinite bans in a janky sort of way”:
“If you’re willing to let your opponent abuse you the system works great for you! you should be grateful they graced the game with their presence enough to play you on their preferred game mode. If you want to take turns deciding which map to play… well… you’re selfish and YOU’RE the one causing long queue times! you should sit back and let your opponent continually abuse you or it is your fault that you get alt F4’d.”
Now that’s probably not what you intended by your statement, but it seems to me to be hidden in that train of discussion.
It was abuse of the system. It was abuse of the opponents. It was selfish. It was wrong. (wrong in the sense of “clearly against courtesy when playing games sense”… not like I think anyone is getting any sort of eternal consequences for that bad behavior… It’s like flipping the monopoly board game over and making your brother clean up after cause he was winning. Dumb, Childish, Selfish. That kind of wrong. The kind of wrong where you can still be friends with a guy who does it, but you wish they wouldn’t. That kind of wrong.)
I have nothing against the push to get a better system that allows for greater control over what map you play. In fact I’m a huge fan of ideas that allow players to pick. I wish every player came on here every day and gave constructive feedback about how to move forward to make us all have a better system. But when someone is on the “Alt F4 was fine and justified” camp I just wish we didn’t fill up the threads with that nonsense.
Implementation was a little rough for some people. ((I’m not talking about self inflicted damage here from people who selfishly wish Alt F4 still worked… I’m talking about gaps in implementation where it accidentally hurt people who didn’t deserve it)) You know… things like:
only ban players from the premade team if one of them early resigns and the rest follow, don’t punish people who got randomly assigned to an Alt F4 teammate.
don’t require fish on nomad to avoid bans(poor huns and low elo who don’t know about docks!)
if your game crashes/freezes you should be able to easily submit the error log and receive an immediate unban while they look into the issue.
(((If your error log turns out to be self inflicted, ban is reinstated and doubled)))
*spotty internet? honestly kinda torn here. They already have PC performance requirements. this is essentially just adding an internet connection quality requirement for ranked, which I’m actually kinda ok with. But maybe I could be convinced otherwise with a good enough reason??
Anyways, summary: to allow players to abuse others and the game is not and has never been the correct answer. This was well deserved and well implemented for the most part. We shouldn’t look back, we should look forward to implementing better and better systems for preventing Alt F4 and smurfing and Team Elo manipulation to Intentionally create unbalanced games and whatever other actual issues we have. Crying about not being able to abuse others anymore is just distracting reading time from devs for the real issues. I highly encourage to Spend your time typing about ways to move Forwards, not backwards.
Don’t abuse the system better let the system abuse of you kappa, before defending anything, watch out the current mess outside your perfect bubble where nothings goes wrong, since the alt f4 punishment, noob bashing has incremented exponentially cause of abusers like this(see below), stacking and banning the most played maps, cause they claim to be bored of the archer+knight meta, so they better farm points, alt f4 was there to prevent such conditions, now you can’t leave, you need to waste 5 mins and lose elo.
Love the idea about the relationship between solo and premades here in regards to early resign/alt F4.
3 man , solo VS double , single , single
ABC D VS EF G H
If A or B or C alt F4 or early resigns, then ABC all lose elo and are all banned. D can resign after his allies with no penalty. However, if D resigns early, then only he is punished and ABC can resign with no penalty. If EF resign, they fall together and G and H are fine. If G early resigns, then EF and H can all resign with no penalty. You can’t game that system by making a smurf to “take the fall” and resign first every time because there is no guarantee you’d match with your mates.
As for games that are legitimately sub 5 minutes… Wow. Kinda hard for me to imagine but sure. I mean I guess on a nomad map with vill fighting, but to kill a TC in less than 5 minutes is impossible. So it makes me think they’re resigning cause they lost a vill to a boar or lost a vill to lithuanian drush or something. If you REALLY feel that is game over then go try to lame or something. When it doesn’t work then call gg after the five minutes. 2 extra minutes to get past the 5 min mark is better than 20 hours.
haha if you really want I’ll look at the screenshot for you. But I have a feeling you and I will have different opinions.
Lets start with map:
They game pit left side against right side on Kawasan. That means nobody banned Kawasan. Nobody considered it the absolute worst map to play on.
Now Elo:
Left side seems to have correct elo ratings (probalby not smurf if they are all that high and they crushed you. Great job left side, I’m proud of you!) Right side has a very wide spread so I’m betting they are solo queue. the differential in ELO is not healthy, but you would never know that in game, so nobody should have any reason to alt F4 or early resign.
Nobody here is saying that the system should be matching 2800’s against 2000’s. But that is a function of a timeout for matching players if the queue time goes over a limit. It’s a way of balancing the fact that there aren’t a ton of players in the highest Standard Deviations of Elo. I don’t like the way they have that set up, but when it happens I play through to whatever point they crush us, and then move on to next.
these players didn’t cheat, they didn’t intentionally match against you, they didn’t break any rules. Nobody was abused here by anyone in my opinion.
i only have experience in 1v1’s so thats all im refering to. for team games i think yea altf4 sounds awful and im glad its gone. but for 1v1’s it kinda acted as additional map bans in a janky sense. if someone had no preference of map they would unban every map and never get altf4ed. but for every map someone banned they would have a slightly higher chance of getting altf4ed. this is because their are certain players who for the sake of argument ban every map except arena, because if they get paired and its not arena they would altf4. if someone bans arena they should understand that they will not get to play against the people who only want to play arena. if by bad luck they get paired vs them then they would both go back into que. then the person who banned arena would keep searching untill they found someone who is willing to play with their prefrences. it was a bit janky but i feel the only fix needed was that if you got altf4ed you would just return to the que wich is what they did
altf4 is obviously not the optimal solution but it was still a highly effective one. if the devs would impliment it directly into the matchmaking system things would be way better. but trying to force out the innovation that lets players have control over maps seems silly to me. the devs should imbrace this obviously wanted feature instead of banning all possiblilitys of it
You have got everything wrong, which could explain why your opinion is biased, but you are missing a lot of understanding, a capture like that says everything that is wrong.
Left side are common stackers, go watch their profiles, amazing 70% kawasan playrate and before that the previous awful map, they ban arabia, arena, bf and the hideout variation, those guys are abusing the system well more like abusing of the players, they should wait longer cause of their preferences and ranks, waiting times can’t be the same if A and B aren’t close in rank and preferences, first BIG flaw of the system.
Right side shows how solo players can’t get their map preferences, so they have to play what a team of stackers wants to play, they had no chance to refuse to that match despite the big elo differences among them, 1600 and 2200? no way that is fair, but HEY that happens all the time, my last 5 team games were just like that well even >1k elo difference so that is not random or isolated.
And lastly okay you got into that match, you shouldn’t be forced to play that and much less being punished by leaving a game with 0 winning chances, meaning that current MM is not working and it has some serious problems, hence forcing players to play under those conditions is insane, to add to the list we have the never ending false positives, either if they are drops, crashes or random error during the queue, they get punished and even being cheated turns into a punishment now, so no it doesn’t fix if only the first one dropping gets punished, whole MM for team games and punishments needs to be gone.
The october statistics should show the big decrement in the tg player base(don’t confuse with users with the game open that steam charts shows) a more reliable source are the total games played on that ladder.
you don’t have to entertain this slander with a response. the whole rant is a fabrication
we were a party of 2 who banned arena + black forest. our winrate is nothing special. we don’t use multiple accounts. we don’t dodge maps.
i don’t know why the matchmaking didn’t separate the highest rated players, but we just play whatever game comes up with whatever allies and enemies we get
the matchmaking is bad. all our suggestions to improve it have been ignored. i’d rather play in a queue with proper RM settings (random maps. random civs. random positions) against other experienced players, but unfortunately we’re all forced to play on these custom scenario settings where you already know what will happen before the game even starts
Isnt that the thing that rm shouldt be with bans and have a random map pool because ranked rm means ranked random and it kinda lost it spirit yea i guess it can still occure that people from your team and or from the enemy team have higher elo but personaly i think everyone should be able to play a random map no matter which one it is and stop being so selfish and go with " ooh 20 years arabia arena best map lets just play that" maybe that will fix some things
Ofc elo resets and or ideas how to stop inflation are needed too but in a way the current system kinda works. Ok i mean it got his flaws will punishing all of the team but how do you differanciate from a premade team and 4 soloqueue player and if its 4 solo players and one resigns because they dont like the map why should everyone else of his team get punished
Kinda funny, but not really:
Loaded into a nomad game, started right next to an enemy vil. So I attacked. Unfortunately, both of his teammates were nearby, and I quickly found myself in a 9v3 vil fight and died by the 2nd minute of the game. I was laughing hysterically and having a great time…
Until I got banned for 30 minutes over it.
This feature was implemented in a way that it punishes people who play unorthodox and try to have fun. That’s such a basic thing…devs, y’all have to start testing features before you release them, there’s no way you could have tested this very much if we’re seeing all these problems. If your algorithm registers activity in the first couple minutes of the game it probably means someone is playing! Not all of us are tryhards!
Ha ha, I agree. Totally funny. But not funny AT ALL. is there a way to appeal that decision? if so, I’d be REALLY interested in what they have to say. Hopefully they can make it not count towards your escalations towards a 20 hour ban, and then swiftly make a rule that Nomad vill fights don’t count. (like if you delete your own vills then you get banned, but if you legit get killed it doesn’t count???)
Yeah, wasn’t planning on it. It’s pretty obvious what was going on with his posts. You see people like that on AOE2.net all the time. I wasn’t about to waste any more time debating or anything. Never gets through to them. It’s like they don’t know how to differentiate situations that just happened by no fault of players and malicious smurfing.
318, 5127, 342, 4598? Sure. they are abusing the system.
2520, 2698, 2812, 2552? nope. System put them together because it was hoping to find another high level team, and when it couldn’t for 6 minutes it wigs out and just throws them against whoever is closest to their elo and is up for a game.
Do I think the system is ideal? no. Do I think the players are malicious? no. Should the opposite team alt F4 if they get put against players way better? no. Do I wish the devs made a solution that decreased the frequency of that happening? yes.
Fundamental idea: you play the game as it is currently programmed, or you don’t.
The idea behind this is good but the execution is bad. My game crashed twice and I got punished. a week later an AOE error message occured telling me that the multiplayer is offline. I got punished for this too. Furthermore if a player drops immediately after a multiplayer game starts, I go leave as well, so it’s fair again. Result: you probably know…I got punished.
Imagine at one point in ladder there’s only two players online. One guy exclusively play Arabia and the other exclusively play arena. So they ban all other maps as some of you guys suggested. How’s the matchmaking decide which map to play? Roll a dice? Infinite waiting time because they don’t have one map they can accept to play?
Alt+F4 is a complicated issue to resolve. Some active forum members here following that mega post should’ve known this by now. For people saying “devs only want to punish rather than finding a solution”, guys, punishment IS a form of solution to the problem, whether it is good enough or not. Discouraging queue dodging can have a ripple effect on the community and push it to a direction that dev hope is the majority.
Everyone wants to have some fun, but dev can’t please everyone. Sometimes, your “fun” isn’t someone else’s and you are the one that needs to adapt, not the community.
With that being said, what dev could do is analysing how people Alt-F4 and implement logical statements of some sort so it can at least detect and try to figure out if someone is being disconnected or just simply Alt-F4. Still tough to do but flushing out repeated offenders should be a bit easier. Maybe this has been done in the latest patch, then there might be rooms for improvements. Some other things like background network condition check can also help. It doesn’t make much sense for someone who has 12ms ping to get disconnected over and over in quick succession, right? I hope this complicated issue could be mitigated in a more thoughtful way rather than a bit of band-aid solution.
for me i usually ban arabia cause i don’t want to play it and cause of that i had an very high number of players who dodged maps
and till now everyone was like if you ban arabia its your own fault but well i really don’t like it and i am not good on it …
the new system increased my elo by almost 100 points
cause people don’t dodge my fav map anymore and “have to play it”
although i think the penality on dodging is too high
you should start with a lower time out and increase it slowly also according if someone is dodging one map in weeks just cause of a bad mood or if someone is doding maps every 2 games
Got a time out for turning off the game using Alt F4, I was in que but I had not matched with anybody (so no intentional que dodging here). Should not work like this!
In what sense do you think you can decide when I play the game that I have paid for?
Please do not make this game worse with your “good intentions”.
Also the game is buggy now, cannot connect to multiplayer services or when I finally can it is not possible to que…
who cares about what the devs think, it is the end user that is important. If i want to play only arena or arabia then why should I not be able to? I dont care if i have to wait 10 mins in the que…
