Right Now Liereyy, despite having a score lead, can’t do much to damage the infinite resource trickle for a civ that has the tankiest navy and also cheaper on gold.
Liereyy lost…
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Tbh feitoria just shouldn’t be part of the game
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feitoria really ruin the game ,not only by game playing, and also match watching
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Portuguese don’t get shipwright and it showed in that game. It was pretty obvious that Liereyy had complete control of the game in early-mid imperial and could have ended the game with the right decisions.
Liereyy had ample opportunity to raid and cut off the wood gathering from Yo but Liereyy, as was appropriately pointed out, got tunnel vision. Viper as he was casting pointed out multiple times that allowing the wood to be chopped was going to cost Liereyy a lot.
Not exactly a strong example of why the feitoria is broken.
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Score lead (unless it’s by a lot, of course, I don’t mean situations where player A has twice the score of player B) doesn’t always necessarily mean that you won the game. It just means you’re likely to be in an advantageous position. I do not like the premise of this post in any capacity. If you get a lead and don’t follow up on your lead, the opponent can turn the game around. That’s what happened in this game.
MrYo just clearly outplayed him, better eco during most of the game, 4:1 relics, etc. it was a well deserved win by all means.
This topic makes no sense, mr you used the feitora but he never made a single caravel which could have destroyed lierey’s army so bad, so it was balanced, i mean not using the strongest counter to mass galleons was hard to believe but it wasn’t the first time that pro players skip that unit, feitora is now part of the game, lierey couldn’t read the map properly and allowed mr yo to eat that forest where he had already won that position, so you can’t really say feitoras was the key to the victory, turtling using feitora usually cost you the game so whatever, it was lierey’s mistake.
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I don’t think the Feitoria is broken unless it comes to a situation as occurred in the finals, where both players run out of natural resources. The Feitoria is not that strong that it really pays off throughout most of the game and usually delivers more disadvantage than advantage. Playing against the Portuguese simply means you have to adapt your strategy to avoid an endless game which the Portuguese will win. It’s gimmicky for sure (like the islands game between Hera and Jordan in HC4), but really only on islands can the Feitoria play such a deciding factor. That, in my opinion, is more damning on islands as a map than the Feitoria itself. It is a bonus that the Portuguese can use on a certain map to give them an edge, and that’s simply part of choosing and using civs.
A far better solution would be to make sure that islands can never be the deciding game of a tournament. Personally I find most islands games to be lackluster, unless players land, so it doesn’t usually make for an exciting final anyways.
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Some time ago I made a threorycraft how I think the Feitoria could be changed to be an interesting part of the Portuguese Gameplay without being situational completely OP.
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Regardless of it was deciding factor of that final game or not. I don’t think Feitoria fits the basic concepts of RTS. Infinite resource for only one side is just totally broken when game last long. You can just build Feitoria and defend until opponent run out of resource. You think it is really fair and interesting to watch for viewer’s perspective?
I think at least Feitoria should not generate stone. You can build Feitoria and repair Castles, Feitoria itself Forever by using Stones generated from Feitoria. It is totally broken mechanism. Someone think that if we nerf Feitoria, it will become useless in competitive gameplay. But, why all aspects of game should be useful in competitive gameplay? Some mechanics of game that not really fits in the competitive aspects can be useless in high level game, and it is nothing wrong.
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Read my linked topic, I come to the conclusion to make it somewhat balanaced it must only produce food and gold, nothing else.
Yes the current design is inbalanced, but I think it can be balanced if you design it carefully.
The balance was pretty much fine in that game. Half the people who complain either did not even watch the match, or don’t have high enough understanding about decision making to understand what happened. Lierrey had an advantage that he failed to close out on and that would have been possible to turn around, Feitoria or not. Moreover, the Feitoria itself is fine, it’s a very expensive building, does take quite a while to pay off, wastes a lot of pop space too, so the player building the Feitoria invites pressure onto himself. Lierrey had the advantage but didn’t invest enough into anti-building to actually close out the game.
Not going Caravels is also not surprising, tech switching is not a great idea when you’re barely holding onto the game by a small thread. (Caravels are not that good in small numbers, MrYo wasn’t exactly in the situation to upgrade Elite Caravel and start massing)
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Oh, you mean the 5000 hp building that takes the same space in your reduced island, costs you 20 pop space each and also takes like 2/3 stone of a castle plus a lot of late game gold that’s only available in the imperial age that makes the strategy predictable in water maps (where there are the least global resources available by a ton)? That feitoria? No, Feitoria Imperial is not broken for a reasonable amount of reasons and it is too dependable on getting to that late game stage where the resources available are at their lowest, then Feitoria (if you still have gold and stone available) becomes somewhat of a nice investment if you can then defend it, then build a second one (where you are already paying 1 1/3 of a castle for a purely economic building [pretty much as if a lumbercamp had the cost of a castle and occupied 8 times its normal space)
Bro, you can’t just hate on a civ just because it’s good on one type of map while it’s lacking on the rest of the maps. It’s like saying “cumans should be nerfed! They’re too strong at closed maps!” but then they go and lose to a castle age incan trush + siege or something
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A totally different way of viewing this:
How about replacing the regular trees with Acacia Trees (150w) or Baobab Trees (200w) on Islands / Team Islands? This would delay the need for Feitorias quite a lot.
Though I have to agree that this might just delay the inevitable and in the end I also agree that the Feitoria needs some kind of change.
He lost cause he did not control enemy island.
He had cheaper ships/better population, twice more army.
But he just allowed Yo to collect all trees on his island.
PS anyway, it’s a joke to give “opinion of Pro player” they could do it themselves.
But. they not first picking Portuguese (if it’s a free win == they should just first pick portuguese ).
Many Pro prefer italians.
Why u dont ask to ban relics from island? Same mechanics.
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And this is why I suggested other solutions - new tourment map (mostly for this games) “water market”. There could by normal island maps but with neutral dock in the corner (like market on marketplace map).
I like this point, if Feitoria is really that broken then every pro should pick Portuguese for Islands. But the fact is most pro just pick Italians for this map. Yo also said he picked Portuguese because his prior strat is always landing. The advantage of Feitoria shows up only if you can survive in very late game.
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Viper just discovered a feitoria counter. Check his youtuber channel
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i still think it would be best to limit the amount of buildable feitorias to 1, but keep the unlmitied amount of res charateristic of feitorias. relics give unlimited gold too and arent broken either.
so i would make it like this:
- New Teambonus: Each Teammember can build up to one feitoria in the Imperial age.
- Feitorias pop cost changed to 10
1+2 are a nerf in 500 pop games, a nerf on ilands, a nerf in any sitaution you would prefer feitorias over villagers, and a buff in all the rest. Also infinite tower spam isnt a thing anymore when the ports player decides to build 180 pop feitoira(9) and 20 pop villagers for towers. By allowing the teammates to build feitoiras we prevent too make the building too rare and this is also historically fitting in my opinion. Feitorias were never a good choice when trade is an option anyway. reducing the pop cost makes the population efficient even when there is wood left and by not using pop to limit the amount of feitorias we can have a relevant but not broken civ bonus.
- Portuguese new civ bonus: Chartography in dark age (compared to prevously now only the portugese player can see teammates exploration without the need of the market, but the porutgueses teammates still ned to build markets as always.)
3 is necessary because feitoiras became the new teambonus.
- Change the castle age UT carracks to “carracks black sword” which gives the millitia line +1 attack and +1/+1 armor. Increase elite carravles meele armor by +1 to offset only against fast fires.
Ports got quite the tanky navy with +HP +Armor and -Gold +Caravels. I think they already got enoguh water bonuses and still suck on land. Ports also got a tradition of order of knights and a thing called carack black sword. This would give them some interesting infantry play with champs. Atleast somthing they can do unique unlike currently as the most generic land civ.
- give portuguese squirres and remove squiress from franks again. franks didnt have it in aoc and got it due to their bad perofmrnace when huns was meta, but franks have been dominating winrates for ages so its time to finally revert this.
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Just don’t let Portugal reach the lategam on the island. Or we can start solving Aztecke relic, or Slavic buildings or … it’s predictable, you know about this problem, so you can do your game. Fetories are not broken. There are ways to win. POSSIBILITY. Like everything.
Well there is the difference that Feito > Relics, which the other civs don’t have. Normally you always win in the very lategame if you have 4 - 1 relics even if you are in a very unfavourable lategame matchup.
Feitos win also against 5 relics.
That makes them unbalanced, as the portuguese player has basically only to survive until that, doing nothing for the game but stalling it. Ofc you can argue that balancewise there should be defensive civs which excel in the very lategame, but Ports aren’t classified as one of those and their real power starts at a time you could already have played 3-4 normal length games.
In ths regard it’s an awkward concept, as if it was intended this way it shouldn’t smoothly increase in prowess rather take over hard at some point of the game where the opponent would slowly get the disadvantage. Than it would be way less annoying cause you don’t have to fight an additional hour against feitos as there would still be some chance left even if it’s so marginally.
But as I don’t see a way how you can achieve something like Feito = win after 90 mins or so, I think it’s better to find another solution that fits more in the current balance design. Something which is neat, but doesn’t is a guaranteed win after some time. Something where good gameplay still matters, something interactive. And this could be achieved by the 1 feito maximum.
Possibly even making that 1 feito available from castle age, so ports can use it to boost their currently quite terrible eco.
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