“The most balanced army” does not exist. There is always a back and forth, much like this discussion 
You’re probably right, I didn’t play AoE3 that much.
But in an instance where you have lots of resources in the late game, AQ is not needed because you can just keep training batches of 5.
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This is my last input to this thread: SHIFT.
Maybe, but if you click without enough ressources for a whole batch of 5, you will still be able to train some right? And if before the training is completed you have the ressources to fill the gap, you have to do it yourself. AQ in AoE3 would (I guess) start producing 1 unit as soon as you can, and then it fills the batch as you get more ressources, and once it reaches 5 and you still have enough ressources it prepares another batch. As I said, in AoE3 there is no option that allows you to start production and keep it going without selecting the building ever again.
First time I see someone who thinks AQ is less effective than manual queuing. In noob hands, it can have downsides, but otherwise, since build orders are made to ensure constant production, AQ will always be easier, faster and lift a lot of the player’s hands. Which is why it can make others things like army micro way much easier (probably too much).
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Which only shows that you didn’t quite get the purpose of AQ, which is more about keeping the pressure while microing and fighting the real battle than saving a few clicks.
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This is exactly why AQ is not a good feature for AOE2. The combat system is just not interesting enough to put so much focus on it. Just take a look at all the military units there are. Nearly all of them basically do 2 things all the time: Move, Attack. Thats it. The only unit which is somewhat special is the monk, having the ability to heal, collecting relics and having a large cooldown on its attack (convert is basically an attack). Maybe you can argue for things like mangonels with their splash and attack ground. There are no special abilities you can reasearch for your units to use, there are no units that can move around the map in an interesting way like climbing cliffs. It is mostly just plain old selecting your units and smack in some other faces.
To me this just sounds like a boring game. Using hit & run with your archers for 30 minutes every game sounds fun for the first few games, not for the next 1000. The reason a combat system like that is working for so long is because it is simply not the main focus of the game. The biggest challenge is spending all your resources in a meaningful way. Take away this challenge, which auto spending resources does help incredible a lot with, and the main focus of the game will shift more towards the military side and as I already mentioned: It just sounds boring.
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I’m on the edge about AQ. I used to play AoM and I loved using it and even got to 1900+ back in the days, but I don’t know about this one… AoM was faster with buildings collapsing in seconds and some games were decided in the second age (I mainly played loki).
For this game, I would ask for some automatic shortcut that selects all my barracks, castles, archery camps, stables and stuff, like ctrl+b/v/a/l/k/y so I don’t have to manually add a new building to my already saturated ctrl groups. I mean, we can already access ONE building using those commands. What’s wrong with accessing multiple buildings? Just add a checkbox in menu to select all current buildings using the shortcut or something. If someone wanna build units in a forward camp they can manually select those buildings or keep using a custom ctrl group.
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Or a shortcut to queue 1 unit from each building you have, example:
ctrl + A = Queue 1 scout/LC/Hussar from each stable you have.
Just go play Custom Scenarios - CBA or something of the sort instead of changing core features of RM.
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Or just let us queue as many units as we want (amount specified by the user), without currently having the resources available for them. It’s similar thing, without being “infinite” as RoN’s infinite queue, isn’t it? Actually makes every building “pay to produce, not to queue”. Automatic farm reseed, is already one “pay to produce, not to queue” feature in the game, for the mill only, of infinite amount and not specified by the user.
A practical example:
My main issue in AoE is that I gradually “build” idle TC time, because constantly either I temporarily forget to - one by one - queue villagers, while waiting first to have the necessary amount of food to queue… or I am consumed to do so in some periods of time (skirmishes etc). But I always have the mental or strategic intention (the knowledge if you prefer - and it seems that I lack the mental capacity to extensively multitask), not to have any idle TC time and I want to in advance order this specific building to prioritize spending, like auto farm reseed (additionally, I take over the responsibility to know when to stop it). Isn’t this argument valid? - The same logic may apply to every building.
Optionally or not, I’m in favor of any help to the user, towards this direction.
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And I have the mental strategic intention of splitting my crossbows to dodge mangonel hits, but I lack the mental capacity to multitask. But it doesn’t mean a auto split button should be added.
This is a real-time strategy game. Having the intention of doing something is not all, part of the point of the game is being able to execute your strategy and tasks in a timely manner.
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How will such an auto split button work? You mean units will no longer listen to player and disperse? At least give some sensible example. That example of auto split makes no sense.
Auto-Queue is a QoL feature that exists in modern RTS. How strange that you don’t want to modernize the game? Auto-farm was intended to help in the same way. These features didn’t involve the AI to automate the game. Unnecessary multitasking is never desirable in a modern RTS.
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It does make sense. Pick 10 crossbows, send them across the map and activate “Auto Split”. If they meet a mangonel on the way they dodge the incoming shot by splitting. As split is already a formation in the game, the Auto-Split would remove just one click. Auto-Queue also removes atleast one click for you, the production of the respective unit. While Auto-Split would take this Automation feature a bit further (without you would have to check permanently), the point of both is the same: You have the strategic intention of doing something but not necessary the mental capacity to do it.
Just because modern games implement a feature it does not mean that this is a feature meant for every game out there. You can not just take any feature from a game and slap it into another just because it worked there. Features like Auto-Queue have an impact 10 times bigger than all the QoL Features that came with DE combined.
With Auto-Queue macromanagement will become such a joke, as you simply have so little to do anymore, especially in the later stages of the game. Part of the reason AOE2 is really good in casual and pro Level is that you can not do everything perfect, you even have to decide whether doing something is worth your time or not. Implement Auto-Queue and we get a huge step closer to perfect gameplay, which is the worst that could ever happen to any competitive game. And without good and interesting competitive gameplay this game would never be where it is now.
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Is there ANY other game with Auto-Split?
Or is it just another unrelated hypothetical idea which you people are making up to mock Infinite-Queue?
Why make comparison to such a senseless idea (i.e. Auto-Split) which just popped into your head, which even you know should never be implemented into the game?
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I don’t think there is, but why does it matter? Just because it is not in another game it doesn’t have to be bad or good for AOE2 by definition. And there is nothing about mocking or anything close to it. You wanted to know where the relation (strategic intention of doing something vs. mental capacity) in both features is and I gave you an example.
I think it does matter. AQ is available in other games, and it a function of many RTS (and even TBS) games. So, it is a feature that merits discussion.
Auto split could also merit discussion, but since it’s not available anywhere else, it would be hard to discuss how it would impact game play in a reasonable manner. In any case, it should have its own thread.
Here, I started one.
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Yes, features from other games are genereally worth some discussion. My point is that it does not say anything about the quality of the feature or that it will also work in other games. Example: Having multiple abilities on a unit in Starcraft is good for that game. But it does not mean it is a good idea for AOE2. The same goes for AQ and pretty much any feature out there. Doesn’t matter if it is good or bad in another game or even a revolutionary new feature, AOE2 is a different game and new features should be discussed in that context without relying on the “Game xy also has this feature” argument .
I do not think there has to be a discussion about Auto-Splitting, because it would be the first feature where the game actively changes the movement of an unit without the player especially ordering it. The Consens here is, at least I think so, that something like that is not wished for by anyone.
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Do you think that if I’m truly bad player and I fail to manage efficiently my workers… I do not balance them properly between the resources… the auto/infinite queue will end up boosting me anyway? Obviously No, it will stuck. That’s why I think it’s QoL and not a booster.
As for your example, with the crossbows and the mangonel, you clearly describe a mechanism that auto-responds to an action of another user. How our topic is related to this?
This is a real-time strategy game that executes strategy (resource manage, produce, outplay) in a timely manner, yes indeed. But the time to deal with the user interface should not be included and should be eliminated.
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That’s just purposedly oversimplifying it. You’re ignoring all unit stances, bonuses vs type and many other considerations you need to do, and yes they are part of combat, since you can’t win without considering and knowing how to benefit from the system.
That’s like saying Counter-Strike is just “point and shoot”.
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