can we maybe stop the spite and think about my idea in perspective?
then donāt use āwell its situationalā as part of your argument. because āits situationalā is not a valid reason to change something, otherwise weād have to change every upgrade in the game.
no, unreasonable is using āits situationalā to justify changing a bonus while you turn a blind eye to other civs with situational bonuses.
no, iām just pointing out the flaw in your argument.
as an idea because this turns into an hard boiled fight instead of a dignified and civil conversation about the topic
your wording on your idea is weird so i have to clue how to read it.
what my idea was - feitoria replaces the market. adjust health down to a little above market. adjust cost to a little above market.
everything else is more or less the same except make it work faster. so ie you can get your trade going faster.
what i ment is that the feitoria replaces the market with adjusted trickle amounts. can produce carts and as the feitoria gives no gold it increases the gold by a % that you get from carts
also maybe not make it reliant on the gap between the market and the feitoria. the airline
my idea was no more trickle period.
its not more its adjusted
i mean i think your idea was to scrap them completly but wouldt it be wierd to integrate a feitoria into a bonus?
I Didnāt say it was more. iām saying my idea is get rid of the entire effect of the current feitoria, turn it into a market that works faster.
not really, but the problem is the market can be built in the feudal age and is much cheaper then the feitoria, how much is your new feitoria market gonna cost that it gets to retain a resource trickle, and still function as a market?
of course it gives you an advantage. If it didnt, then the building would be useless.
The point is that an eco bonus hitting in Imp is not as significant as an eco bonus starting in dark age (or feudal).
I agree, this is difficult to assess, but let me try to do some assessment here:
Lets take the celt wood bonus. At any given time you usually have around 20-25% of your eco on wood. Lets go with 20% for this. If we are on an open map you might reach Imp around the 40 minute mark. Lets say the game lasts 70 minutes. Now, how many villagers can you realistically fit around one Feitoria? 20 I guess? If you hit imp with around 80 villagers this would be 25% of your eco. You realistically want to get to around 120 villagers, so if you want a quarter of your eco to benefit from the bonus you would need to construct less than two feitorias.
Okay, lets say 4 Feitorias were realistic (1000 gold 1000 stone cost), that means 66% of your eco were affected by the bonus. If you manage to do that by 45 minutes you would have an eco bonus of 10% for 66% of your eco for a time of 25 minutes, while the celt player has a 15% bonus for 40 minutes and a 5% bonus for 30 minutes, affecting 20% of his eco.
Now, Iām not sure if you can just do a simple multiplication to compare these numbers, but I honestly dont see why not. That would be a score of 16500 for Portuguese, 15000 for celts. Whereas I think Im seriosuly lowballing the wood percentage of your eco here, simply to not make it too complicated with the dark age.
For slavs it would be something like 40% of your eco is affected from around 15 minutes on, so they would get a score of 22000.
Just to be clear, this is just an approximation, and of course not a perfect assessment, but it looks to me like portuguese would get a eco bonus that fits in scale with other civs eco bonusses, if the game goes very long, and is much worse if it doesnt go very long. It might possibly be strong, but I dont think its gonna be broken.
ok i mean it would cost wood and gold and the trickle would adjust other the ages but thats besides the question
but your argument was that nothing was happening faster. which is false.
true but it still impacts your entire economy.
umm it would be easy with a fast imp build to throw 8-10 on a nearby mine, another 8-10 on a nearby woodline, and of course farms. so iād say around 20-25 is easy, and at that time with that build that would be more like half your economy.
and now youāve just made their fuedal worse because the market replacement costs gold. which is why i was trying to make it just a market replacement.
i mean it would be broken if it cost wood and too much isnt really affordable in feudal age
i mean tell me and i mean i t honest what is the difference if it would cost 550 wood or 125 wood 150 gold
which is why i wouldnāt increase the wood cost all that much. the majority of the feitorias benefit is strictly a multiplayer benefit in my change.
i wouldnāt make it cost 550 wood, iād make it cost something like 200 or 225 at the most.
realistically it gets a little more health and in team games it works faster allowing you to get your trade going faster. thatās literally the end of the benefit. iād scrap the current feitoria completely.
With ādoing things fasterā I mean, that bonusses like mongol faster hunt allow you to hit feudal faster, and start your agression faster. Slavs allow you to hit castle age faster and pump out higher amount of knights with less eco, and also will allow you to get to imp faster, getting your upgrades and thereby gaining a powerspike.
An eco bonus that starts in Imp by constructing a building does not allow you to do any of these faster. It hits AFTER you got all the important upgrades and get your power spike from hitting imp. At that point it is, as you said more a bonus of allowing you to field a bigger military, due to needing less villagers. But getting to the point where you even are pop capped doesnt really happen faster as for other civilizations.
But I agree, on closed maps this might be more significant. I donāt have much experience with those and still do not even understand how one approaches to play Arena.
It opens up the feasability of a fast imperial build order. furthermore i rarely see games where pros upon reaching imp are already at 200 pop, faster income of resources means they can build more units sooner, means reaching 200 pop faster.
I actually really like the general direction of your proposal.
Right now, the feitoria is either useless (if there are enough ressources on the map, eg pretty much every map) or toxic (if there are few res, eg really only island). Thats just bad. On AoEzone there was talking about banning either islands, portugese or feitorias from future tournaments because its just not enjoyable to watch.
Your proposal would fix this and add new options. Feitorias would become a long term investment that can pay off in long games. They would also be a lot easier to balance as you can just tweak the cost a bit.
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No way. This thread still going? Chinese have much better eco bonus than the Fetoria, and no one complains about that 
The Fetoria CAN be very good, but extremely rare. Most games donāt last long enough for it to be worth it.
People literally bring up nerf chinese about every 2 months.
Its not about beeing good or bad. Its about beeing annoying.
What OP proposes is actually a buff to the feitoria, not a nerf.
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