Saracen Cavalry Archers

I don’t think it was right to take away the Saracen’s Cavalry Archer building damage bonus. This is a mechanic that existed ever since the original Age of Empires II 1.0 CD release. With the new update the mechanic is completely gone. I feel like this is a really bad oversight. I know its not really a critical capability for Saracens, but that is another argument against removing it in the first place. I can understand why the more recent experiment with giving regular archers siege capabilities was terminated, but that has nothing to do with the Saracen cavalry archer bonus.


I agree, just extending the civ bonus to cav archers should not be a big deal and be fine

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I super agree with this

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Actually I don’t like this teamgames bonus because it is a strong ability and can be really dangerous in teamgames as combo. Imagine Ethiopian Saracens or Huns Saracens if for CA.

The thing about redesign is, the civ will lost their identity, nerf or buff something is fine but redesign is stupid.


yeah same. I think making it a +2 bonus for saracens alone is good enough.

Nah, i am so happy that they removed the missiles archers and i think they should even remove the Saracens foot archers team bonus and give them something else for all of their light cavs/knights/Cav archers like +5% speed or +10hp for example because the Arabian horse is the best horse in the world


Of course it shouldn’t be a team bonus. +4 bonus to only Saracen cavalry archers was the way it was for about 20 years. It only got screwed up with the decision to power up regular archers


Actually, Saracens building damage bonus was +1 for foot archer and +4 for Cav archer in pre-DE. Devs reduce Cav archer bonus to +1/2/3 and buff foot archer bonus +2/3/4 for each age instead.
That was a good change to buff them because foot archers are definitely easy to use and easily synergize with their market bonus.

Now they nerf archer bonus and completely remove Cav archer bonus for no reason. They have no other bonus to go Cav Archer means that there are not many situations for go Cav Archer and the bonus for CA was very rarely effective. We lost one of the civs that have bonus in Cav archer which is a shame. Why Cav archer bonus, which is a historically justifiable bonus (Saracens also have a nice Cav archer) with give some niche in the game, and no harm and broke at all. Why should they be removed? Devs did you thoroughly consider it?

I also agree with Team bonus. Imagine Saracens ally with Mongols, Berbers, Cumans, Tatars etc. But for Saracens, they have no other bonus to help go Cav Archer and very rarely go for it because they also have good arbalester. Why some minor playstyle (Cav Archer) should be more nerfed than meta (Archer)? I think just +2 or +3 for Saracens only is enough.
Honestly, Team bonus for foot archer also reduces to +1 and another +1 for Saracens only would be better.

I wrote a topic about Saracens and i think you would like to see Interesting ideas about the Saracens

In general i still even think they should get rid of the Saracens team bonus for foot archers +2 attack vs buildings, so what to do?

My suggestion:

-Saracens team bonus replaced by Cavalry archers have +2 attack vs cavs.

So what do you think?

I really don’t like changing mechanics of old civilizations. I would much rather just keep the old bonuses. To maintain balance, the old bonuses should be adjusted in effectiveness, not replaced with entirely different mechanics.

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A mechanic that nobody used 11

The Saracens are a very versatile civilization. Many of the things the Saracens can do you will rarely see them do, simply because they can do so many things. On top of this factor, Saracens are rarely picked so this reduces your chance of seeing a specific strategy even more.

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Well, I used it always in singleplayer and sometimes multiplayer. From my experience it changed my hole Strategy and also the uniqueness of the Saracens.

I agree that the developer have to strengthen the cavalry (arabian horses)

Maybe they could give back a more “specialized” bonus, like CA deal +4 bonus damage only vs walls, or +6 only vs houses, making them a anti-walling CA.

The change I prefer to see is:

  1. Saracens team bonus: Camel units +4 attack vs buildings.
  2. Indian team bonus: Cavalry Archer units +3 attack vs buildings.
  3. Indians get Siege Rams.
    The Saracen team bonus at present is: Foot archers +3 attack vs buildings. For some reason, they wrote it +2. Also it affects Skirmishers, and not Hand Cannoneers.

Indian Camel is meant to replacement of knight line and they need attack bonus vs Building. But Saracens can train Knight and also they have access to arbalester means that Saracens not necessarily go to camel as their main unit.
What is the point of transfer Indian team bonus to Saracens?

Also, CA building bonus is too strong for team bonus. Building destroying Mangudai and Kipchak would be too much. I prefer recover the building bonus damage as Saracens bonus as the original game. not a Team bonus.

Not only them, but also Elephant Archers, War Wagons adn even Conquistadors would be too scary vs buildings

Conqs and Arambais aren’t counted as Cavalry archers though. You can test it using Tatar team bonus.

Finally they will have a purpose.

The last patch changed it to “Light Cavalry” as replacement of Knights by giving them extra pierce armor and hence transferring the raiding role. Indians already have a food bonus and later a gold bonus to play out their game plan. Saracens on the other hand have no bonuses except a meagre +10 HP on Camels. Indians can receive Siege Rams though.

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I’m not sure if Conquistadors would get the bonus, hand cannons do not get archer bonuses

-edit- Well you beat me to that by about 2 seconds 11

They do but Conqs get gunpowder attack bonuses from team bonus/civ bonus, have used them in custom scenarios that let you make them as a different civ, so I don’t think they would get an attack bonus for cavalry archers

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