Serbs, civilization concept

serbs png 1

Hi everyone! It would be pretty cool to see the Serbs in AoE2 (At least for Serb community)
I did (a lot) of research! And this is what i came up with, please tell me what do you think.

Cavalry and Infantry civilization

Start with +2 sheep
Cavalry armor upgrades free
Spearman, Pikeman +1 armor
Monks created 50% faster

Unique Unit:

Vlastela (Cavalry)

Unique Techs:

Saxon Miners (Gold miners work 20% faster)
Arming Doublet (Vlastela +2 armor)

Team bonus:

Sappers free

Units:

Archer, Elite Skirmisher, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Champion, Pikeman, Hussar, Paladin, Capped Ram, Onager, Scorpion, Siege Tower, Bombard Cannon, Fishing Ship, Transport Ship, Trade Cog, Fire Ship, Cannon Galleon, Demolition Ship, Galleon, Petard, Trebuchet, Monk.

Vlastela (Cost: 60f 50g)
Serbian unique cavalry unit, which ignores bonus damage.
Strong vs Infantry. Weak vs. Archers

Upgrades: attack, armor (Blacksmith); speed, hit points (Stable); creation speed, to Elite Vlastela 1200F, 700G (Castle); more resistant to Monks (Monsatery).

HP: 100, Attack: 12, Armor: 2, Pierce armor: 1, Range: 0, Line of Sight: 5, Speed: 1.35, Build Time: 18s, Frame Delay: 0, Attack Delay: 0s, Reload Time: 1.8s.
Upgrade time 60 seconds.

Elite Vlastela (Cost: 60f 50g)
HP: 140, Attack: 14, Armor: 2, Pierce armor: 1, Range: 0, Line of Sight: 5, Speed: 1.35, Build Time: 18s, Frame Delay: 0, Attack Delay: 0s, Reload Time: 1.8s.

Unlocked technologies:

Archery range: Thumb ring
Barracks: Supplies, Squires
Stable: Bloodlines, Husbandry
Blacksmith: Everything unlocked
Dock: Gillnets, Careening, Dry Dock, Shipwright
University: Masonry, Fortified Wall, Ballistics, Heated Shot, Murder Holes, Chemistry,
Siege Engineers, Keep, Arrowslits
Castle: Hoardings, Conscription, Spies/Treason
Monastery: Herbal Medicine, Heresy, Sanctity, Fervor, Faith, Illumination, Block Printing
Town Center: Loom, Town Patrol, Hand Cart
Mining Camp: Gold Shaft Mining, Stone Shaft Mining
Lumber Camp: Two-Man Saw
Market: Caravan, Guilds, Coinage, Banking
Mill: Horse Collar, Heavy Plow

Wonder should represent GraÄŤanica, Visoki DeÄŤani, Ravanica or some other Serbian monastery.

The backbone of the civilization should be strong Cavalry, Infantry and Monks.

Tech tree: Click here to view

Intresting facts:

Vlastela consisted of noble cavalry in the medieval Serbian army, armed in the Byzantine style manner.
Medieval Serbia pretty much relied on coastal fortresses for defense, because of that navy is modest.
The Saxons were known as excellent miners, and Serbian rulers hired them to work in most of the old mines in Serbia. The main source of wealth of medieval Serbia was gold. Within the Siege of Constantinople, the Ottomans tried to undermine the foundations of the ramparts by tunneling and thus make it easier for themselves to break into the city. The main role in that was played by the miners from Novo Brdo, who were sent by the Serbian despot Djuradj Brankovic as part of his vassal obligations, thus the Sappers team bonus.

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A really interesting idea :slight_smile:

I keep my fingers crossed for Serbs civ (also for Croats civ).

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@UnpricedCar9

What would you say about the Serbo-Croatian civ to AoE 2 if it wasn’t possible to add both civs to the game? Would you agree to a South Slavic compromise?

I think Serbs should have their own civ, but if that’s not possible :(.
Compromise will do, but i don’t know what Croats can contribute.

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That doesn’t sound as too weak to archers

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That was a mistake, It’s fixed :smiley:

Can we not do wrong to both factions by combining them? Its either serbs or corates not both.

Like, if they get only the first upgrade for gold and stone it might be balanced, if not it might be OP.

Still, overall it’s a weak eco bonus for the early game.

Useful, but alone not that strong.

Only that? I mean, I assume that it can’t research monk techs, or can it? Does it substitute the monastery? Does it cost less? Is it built in less time? Can it garrison relics with the same gold generation?

Because if it only train monks faster, it’s not cheaper, and it doesn’t work with relics, it’s pretty much useless, at that point a monastery is better?

Not useless, but incredibly strong as a TB if you are allied with tartars.

This is basically the cumans bonus, which was nerfed from 80%, so probably no…

Overall, they are quite a weak civs, with too different bonuses in my opinion.

Like, they have one bonus for skirms, one for monks, one for trebs, then a cav UU.

Choose one or 2 things to focus the civ, and then go in that direction. You can still give them other branch of their tech tree FU, but as for bonuses they are spread too thin in too much directions.

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To many other civs I’d like to see first.

Uu is just a Boyar, both effects of the UTs are taken. Their main eco bonus is basically playing as Turks but way slower to get going, the elite skirm free is fine, but it really doesnt work well with the rest of the stuff going around, the monk building is fine but its just faster working monasteries in practice and only really helps when going hard into monks on arena a map in which the civ doesnt have a great tech tree for

Basically I dont see any map in which this civ would be good. They are lacking a feudal bonus entirelly, the militia is generic and lacking gunpowder, good archers and halbs is just a lot to lack on arena. Its also a bit lacking flavour honestly.

Also I hope not in the next expansions, gimme some African or Asian civs

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Yes, it could be very OP, it will be changed to “Villagers mine 15% faster”.

It should only be producing monks twice as fast, without option for technologies.

No, it should be separate from monastery, like civ unique unit.

Parohija should cost around 125W, build time should be nearly twice as fast, as Monastery.

Yes, the relics should be garrisoned, with same gold generation.

True, Tartars will have greater TB range, it will be changed to “Hoardings Free”.

You are right, it will be changed to “Light Cavalry and Hussars move 10% faster”.

I like the idea of Serbs as a civs but not I have a lot of issues with the executions
I don’t see how it is an infantry civilization if anything it is a Cav, Monk civ

  1. Mining tech upgrade might be a bit OP but seeing how rare it is for someone to get the mining techs in feudal and it allows you to produce more Knights, Vlastela, and Monks. Even if it needs to be nerfed slightly it is a good eco bonus with good synergy with the rest of the civ
  2. Skirm upgrade being free is odd but it does have synergy with Vlastela’s low pierce armor.
  3. It seems kind of redundant to give Serbs a unique building that does exactly what a monastery does but better. It’s like giving Goths a unique building that functions like a barracks but can train Huskarls and works 100%. just give them a faster working monastery with a unique texture. Alternatively, you can give Parohija a unique ability like being able to garrison units that heal at a faster rate.
  4. +1 range on trebuchets is a nice team bonus that everyone can benefit from.
  5. Vlastela is a nice idea but is similar to and outclassed by the Boyar a unit that should be OP but no one regards seems it as such. Also, I doubt its ability to counter paladin due to the lower HP
  6. Faith needs to be rename and redesign because there is already a monastery tech named Faith. And it does the same thing as the Byzantines team bonus. Maybe have it give monks an Aura that heals nearby units
  7. Krajisniks is fine
  8. Tech tree is mostly fine but I do find it a bit odd that they have a worse navy than Tatars but maybe the problem is that Tatars have a somewhat decent navy
  9. Free heated shot would be nice if you are going with the theme of using coastal defense vs navy

And allied civs who doesn’t have it? Which are about a third…

For 50 wood saved only its not that big of a deal, since sooner or later you’ll need to build a monastery for the tech…

Like, if you make it cost just 50 wood then it may work.

It can also be just like before, but you remove the last stone and gold upgrade. In post imp, the civ would gather as fast as the others, but they would get the last upgrade basically for free an age earlier.

Anyway, the main problem remains. Their early game is weak, and there isn’t an aspect of the civ that is properly buffed by the bonuses.

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Parohija couldn’t work from the start, producing monks in separate building didn’t make much sense… After several hours of solution finding, i think i completed the civ concept as it should be.

With the revision, theres still problems with the overlaps. Vlastela are still just Boyars, the infantry bonus is too much like Teutons and broken in feudal, Hussar UT overlaps with berbers and Magyars (but its diferent so I guess its fine)

Theres still a lot to fix but I would say that its better at least

Unique unit is so similiar to Leitis but it is too expensive. If it need 20 gold less (70 f 55 g), it would be normal unit but it still so similiar to Leitis. Their eco bonuses are too weak. Their only strong option is 255 cheaper Hussar in late game. It need a lot of rework.

Edit: I saw wrong. Now I see Unique unit cost is 75 food 70 gold. It is still expensive. This unit has +3 more melee armor comparing to Leitis. On the other hand, it doesn’t relic bonus and armor ignoring ability. Its cost should be 60 f 50 g.

When all upgrades are considered, Vlastela should be stronger in 1v1 fights against Cataphract and Konnik, and less strong than Boyar, Boyar is just too OP in melee fight, i’m not sure why are Slavs Siege and Infantry civ, so yeah. What does infantry bonus have to do with Teutons? Just look at feudal age bonuses for 50% of civs. There are NONE. Also if Infantry units +2 melee armor, isn’t a bonus i clearly don’t know what is… :rofl:

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You are right about price, it should be lower a bit.

It is basically the same. The whole civ is very similar to a mix between teutons and slavs, very melee focussed but instead of a farming bonus a lategame cost reduction for hussars.

And btw the mining bonusses are less important than farming bonusses, the civ would kinda suck in comparison.

I think there is more potential to make it more destinct. Also the UU is more like a weaker version of the Boyar. If it should be strong against infantry, you could maybe adapt from the sicilian bonus, like ignores all bonus damage or something like this. This would be interesting addition to the knight line, a unit that could deal with a pure halb spam - forcing the opponent to not rely completely on counter units.

Generally I think you could be way more creative with the civ. Unfortunately I don’t know much about the serbs so I don’t really have an idea what it could be.

BTW are serbs and sorbs related?

That’s the main problem, almost all bonuses and unique tech is already taken by other civs.
It’s very hard to represent civ accurately, without taking other civ bonuses.

Sorbs are Western Slavs, and they share genetic origins with Serbs.
That’s all i know.

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