Portuguese consulate is pretty good for Japanese.
India’s fine. Some aspects of it can be a bit op but it’s manageable. People just tend not to play because it is set up different than the traditional civs.
OP?? where?? Less eco cards, no arsenal or other bonus, mansabdars are slow to reach battlefield, wonders are a joke (10% boost really (for few seconds/small area)???), no factories, useless consulate (compared with asians), forced to train sepoys to build, cost heavy inneficient cavalry (mahouts), a “mortar” that requires a lot of micro to avoid attacking units…and so on
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In supremacy, not in treaty.
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india is far from op in treaty. they are legitimately quite good in the lategame outside of treaty, generally being just fine at ffa and large team games where other people cover mortars and heavy cav, things like that. they have lots of good things going for them, but they have a few holes in their roster that aren’t exactly easy to fix. consulate only can do a little bit
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I don’t think they’re too difficult to fix. Swapping out one unit would basically leave everything covered.
a muitas outra coisa que fazem a índia ser fraca em tratado suas unidades são medianas e não tem nada de especiais os elefantes são muito caros e ocupam muito espaço as versões similares europeias são mais viáveis por exemplo os gendarmes franceses e as carroças de guerra alemãs são mais baratas mais ‘‘fortes’’ e ocupam menos espaço, realmente os elefantes são um pouco mais fortes e tem mais vida, mais em tratado o que vale e que tem mais canhoes e quem tem mais exercito e treina mais rápido coisa que a índia falta em tudo a unica unidade que são boas são os sepoys . @PratUshh @howlingwolfpaw @M00Z1LLA @dansil92 @OperaticShip743 @Ekdal1378
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India has a great eco, especially with the fur trade one can use that coin do delete down as one does not need 80-100 vills on food post TR. That is how they cope with some of their slow train weaknesses.
IMO India should not be too OP, its a fun niche civ that doesn’t want to find itself in every match, and with a few buffs could easily be that good. Its for people with good micro and want a challenge and for fun.
Even though they have no factories, they have great trickle cards, and a 1300 wood card that is unraidable, once a Euro civ loses its factories its a slow dying process, but India not being reliant on OP wonders or factories is actually at an advantage there.
Siege eles are actually really good because of their speed and versatility as a mortar and culverin.
mansabars being buffed to less pop is a huge buff!
That 10% boost in the initial fight can really be the difference of losing half an army and steam rolling the first battle to control the center ground.
The consulate is not worthless, a few cannons mixed with India’s army at the start is really good. I use Brittish Brigade over the gendarmes. 5 falconets with 3 siege ele, is awesome, and tigers and 3 mahouts are plenty enough melee, the rest is all Sepoy.
Where I would like to see improvements is to have the 9 urumi card come in at half the time. that is India’s strength to use with Mahouts synergisticly for a deadly melee civ. But they come so slow can often stow down the momentum.
from my understanding it is better to use flail eles, as they give out better DPS for the cost now. (due to higher damage cap for AOE damage)
Other reasonable buffs would be to have cards and techs used for elephant train time to make camels train as fast as Euro cav, they really do need a spammable unit and camels are pretty weak (I never use them in TR but might have some use if could make fast) and to make them even a little better require 2 cards so this would help them in certain situations to get out of a jam, but not so good that will win them games. Since it will be an expensive trade off… I try to not spend much coin with India and let that fur trade last a long time. Sometimes though some lighting fast camels would be nice if they go too heavy on skirms, and sepoy and gurka cant keep up production. But devs need to make sure flail ele would not be any faster… they seem to outscale mahouts now and that is bad.
Well, france has it and have more eco cards while its eco is better. Hauds has it but they have cow boom. India hasnt while it has more expensive units. With the other 2 civs nobody kill villagers, if u do you will be in a worse position.
Unfortunately it is, the only bonus they have comes from there as mansabdars, victory tower and Karni mata (a worse economic theory that only works in a small area costing res to build).
Not if you can take down a wall (specially gates) and it attacks a skirmisher with its great attack vs infantry. In my opinion they shouldnt attack non arty units.
Thats not a great thing cause your army will be worse until the end of the countdown, losing resources cause you have a worse eco than enemy
Again, a treaty match can be longer than 10min, consulate units dont count for this mode but japanese ones cause their trade card.
The exportation earned is not enough to train canons/armies constantly, you will run out of it while other civs can use anti infantry artillery effectively. Faster if villagers are killed.
Also the other asians can get units from this building too, so…
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not all civs can or should be France… France is a nooby civ for beginners, India is for moderate to pro players. Haudes are a one trick pony to delete down and make massive Native armies they get a small window to overwhelm before losing eco and also are greatly hindered by the amount of wood they need.
Tower of victory could be changed but its really not that bad, perhaps a faster recharge time. The idea is it gives your army a big advantage in those crucial fights to do damage that snowballs.
Karni mata is fine, its value is more than a factory.
Siege eles are for art and buildings, and they are highly maneuverable, if used well, can keep them safe. if they were too good and never lose the Art war then India would never lose the inf war too, so they need this inherent weakness.
As for consulates, you can increase the gather rate to use cannons and hussar (which no one seems to do, so thus it must not be that valuable), but after a good long game will get many chances to use them, India should not have artillery like that. They were designed as a melee civ and that is how they should continue to be balanced by (increase mahout pathing, and make urumi more viable to send the card) a few supplemental cannon are fine, at best people should be able to buy individual cannons and now have to use the export for accompanying cavalry,
explain how india is op?
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Everyone has economic theory that is better cause is not restricted to a small area of the map with the same effect.
Siege eles need a lot of micro to avoid attacking infantry or cav instead buildings, thing that mortars dont need. Also they are countered by most units.
India is just not a Euro civ though, Giving them all the same techs as Euro civs would not be fair to Euro civs,
Having a centralized Eco works in TR. most people build a fairly centralized eco. And the lack of villager movement on paddies also negates bumping issues. It also uses a card, where India gets that bonus as part of an age up, so that is another bonus. And I doubt eco theory even comes close to the Karni mata as terms of res per minute since it scales on all existing upgrades.
India booms are fine, solid scores are achievable and the civ has enough eco advantages to delete down for powerful pushes with its high value units.
Again Siege eles are not like Euro civs. Mortars are good at what they do sure, Siege eles have limitations yes… but that is what makes the civs asymmetric. Even though it is not wise to use siege eles vs units, there are a few times when even that 70 splash dmg can come handy to attack a unit instead of having a mortar being totally unable. Its really the range of the mortar that makes it so good. Yet if I see units coming to counter my elephants, I can quickly move them to the other side of my army, which their counter units would have to fight through and die to, that can’t be done with mortars.
Only problem siege eles really have is vs port or Japanese mortars with their range have no good options.
Siege is India’s weakness and without a weakness would be too strong. Problem is so many just want to turn it into another skirm good cannon civ and its just not meant to be played that way. Its a in your face civ, with low range but high dps, where one really wants to get on top of the army with melee units and have the siege ele right in the thick of it.
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Paddies have a lesser gather rate caused by this ending with same gather rate.
Karni mata doesnt work in that way, just 10% like economic theory, check it on UI.
I dont say giving them every tech/card but everything India has is rum destilery and royal mint for coin and food silos and sustenaible agriculture for food.
Also europeans have cards slots for eco theory but India is too much dependent and a good election it’s needed.
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hmm. so they nerfed karni mata? I played mostly on legacy
But from what I have seen in DE India has only gotten much stronger. Yet in legacy got to a major in TR using mostly India on 1v1 maps.
I never even used a coin gathering card except fur trade, and maybe it is royal mint. And that is really just to have a slightly faster age up. The key is to not try to use high coin units. I try to not make howdas, and only a few Gurka like 10-15 at a time max… just enough to pressure forces on the fringe, but not allow myself to get weak to cav spam. I like that they do not need a lot of eco cards and can use all that extra space for military cards, some of which are very unique and under rated yet opted out in Euro decks.
and I send urumi rather than the merc shipments.
OH MAN!
- I’m sick of such uneducated claim about SIEGE ELE
If someone cant understand the pop,eco,range,vulnerability cost of a siege ele.
Just answer this simple Question:
Will you exchange Indian Siege options for any europeon or any other civ ?
- Cards
Military cards: Are just compensation for arsenal. They bring units to normal levels rather than buffing them.
Eco cards : Doesnt have Refridgeration, nor any extra Gold card
Trickle cards are a basic necessity. also the team trickle cards is worst trickle card in the game.
Also there are alot of useless cards like : Enable slowest healing from Sacred fields. Enable Camel/Ele give almost 0 trickle. one of the strongest unit comes only from cards.
- Wonders:
Fort: Is nowhere near an outpost / Euro-Inca-haussa fort. Needs a very slow upgrade in each age.
Taj mahal: The only decent wonder
Karni Mata : BUGGED! Ultra nerfed economic theory in a form of wonder, and smallest range.
Tower of Victory: To create a 10 second illusion that ur units are better. Less effective than 2 griot in a real game.
Charminar : Literally NO ONE EVER USED MANSABDAR EVER before the pop reduction. And even now its hard to retrain them and make them reach the point of action on time. Also! they all still takes double the time n double the cost.
- Other Missing stuff
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Slowest train time in the whole game. + No true artillery. = No surety of beating a large continuous waves of Heavy infantry
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Siege ele (a Culv + mortar) with 28 range (LOL) + the Most countered unit of the game = U cant reach the enemy culv/mortar but every enemy unit can kill ur Siege unit
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Mohout and sepoy claimed as main units + slow train time, WORST pathing in the game + High pop/Eco cost = U cant use mohout much, nor spam them. there are musks with far greater hand attack and range than Sepoy.
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No factory + Wood depended = If u managed to spam a batch of mohout, dont expect next one anytime soon. Also wastes the Dravidian martial art card that buffs rajpoot cause rajput cost wood and no one makes them EVER.
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Absolutely ! Worthless consulate ! so no comments there.
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Camels are still useless : needs 2 cards to make them close to below average.
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Other civs are simply wayy more Updated and suited for the warfare.
IMO For the devs, Asian Civs = Japan.
Normal civs = USA + Europe.
Civs to Conciously ignore = Iro, India.
Also this game is not just a 1v1 game its also a Team n Treaty game that most players play.
CC: @Ippert @IkoKnight8151 @vitorcxb20 @Breadalus @howlingwolfpaw @Ekdal1378
[UPDATED]
Some budding innovative ideas, that can be improved and implemented:
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Sacred fields give trickle : can be be balanced and adjust as per need. sort of semi factories or shrines. Although a sacred field in real life, is itself a shrine.
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Add Dutch, Sweden Consulate that can give an Arsenal.
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Add/Make cards percentage better to compensate the lack other eco cards and of arsenal.
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Add a new building, Some sort of Arsenal+Capitol, with a higher than normal cost, that can contain the mini eco and military upgrades BOTH.
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Devs Make elephant pathing better.
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Increase Siege ele range to 32 or 34 from 28/30.
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Simply Give a mortar like the natives got.
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Rework useless cards. Buff Auras and abilities.
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Infinite wood, Mango Grove. Or free with Last age up.
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Increase POP Limit
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Enable Mansabdar to be created from barracks and stable. While charminar is standing. Or allow to convert a normal unit to Mansabdar unit by paying a price and a Big button.
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Make Jat lancers viable.
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Everything have you said it’s my POV not only about siege elephants
Im not sure if I understand this part, every civ have military cards that affect EVERY UNIT OF 1 TYPE (cav/inf combat…), indians cant buff natives or mercs by this way.
Wood isnt a problem, at least in treaty. They fail in coin economy, after fur trade run out they are dead.
I would switch dutch for portuguese, a useless one thanks to mughal architecture (a must to have)
I dont know how hard would be to add but I would remove their possibility to attack no atillery units, it’s very frustrating to missclick over an infantry/cav unit instead a layer of wall (a lot in treaty). Mortars dont need that micro while culvs arent countered by everything
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I meant, that Indian military cards are way more critical and not as optional as Europeon. Indian cards make units from below average to normal, rather than buffing them up. Missing an Indian card is a greater loss, than in any other case. It takes 3 cards to make Elephants viable, 2 cards to make Camels near to average. 1 card to make Gurkha a normal skirm.
It sort of depends on playstyle, if u spamming barracks and mohouts/siege ele, then you would be short on wood too, else definitely short of Gold. I have gold or wood defficiency in most matches, but we both can agree there is an economic deficiancy that needs to be cured.
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Are there other way to play?? Hahaha. Its the only way to keep the pressure, forcing enemies to take down barracks instead kill units. Also it keeps the flow of units
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